Nov 10, 1998

What a killer idea! Not only a chance to get some really great stories, but maybe an opportunity for women horror writers to get a little more exposure.....I mean really, there are only a few getting any press, and this would be a chance for us to see some new talent. Ketchum/Kiernan....What a great tandem. Garton and Massie, I'd like to see that. I want to see Richard Laymon and Nancy Collins. That would be killer. So how about it editors? Make some magic!
Matt

Nov 11, 1998

Who would be the lucky dog to write with Lucy Taylor then?

Nov 11, 1998

Well, if she's not taken, I'll gladly offer my services.

Of COURSE I meant for a collaboration, you perverts!

HA!


Later!

--Geoff

Nov 11, 1998

Heya. I just posted a few book reviews over at the review page....I wouldn't mind hearing some other opinions on the books I read, if anyone wants to share. Thanks, Matt

Nov 11, 1998

If you guys haven't read Murial Gray i suggest you give one of her two published novels a try. She has Trickster and Furnace. I would recomend Trickster first. I have said on the review board that what i like about this woman is that she writes like a man(and i mean that in only the best ways). Her characters are believable and she aint affraid of the red stuff!

Reanimated

Nov 11, 1998

Good call Reanimated...

Muriel Gray is a very solid writer; I hope that her books are selling well, as I'm very interested to see what she comes up with next.
br She writes like, uh... (I've got it!) she writes like Muriel Gray, and that is by no means a bad thing!

Cheers,

JP

Nov 12, 1998

You're right Matt. But I think it should ne either Nancy and Schow or Nancy and Nutman. They fit the bloodstained templat better. And of course, if Sonja wasn't watching me, I would be stalking Nancy as we speak. Er.....Did I say that? Stop What Don't touch me no her I like winnie the pooh What spleen Okay... I wish all the best Weston

Nov 12, 1998

Lucy Taylor and John Pelan would fit masterfully. Schow and Laymon. Women writers are all over the place: Yvonne Navarro...RED SHADOWS Kathe Koja...EXTREMITIES Poppy Z. Brite...ARE YOU LOATHSOME TONIGHT? CAITLIN KIERNAN...SILK Nancy Collins...ANGELS ON FIRE and on and on and on... Paul, who is still hoping for the boy/girl antho to become reality...any title suggestions?? Mine?...SENSITIVELY BRUTAL!

Nov 12, 1998

Will someone please do something about people posting 'get rich quick' messages. Eventually these swine will clog up the Internet completely! Get a life, you sad bastards!

Sergeant Pepper - Internet CID

Nov 12, 1998

Rean., I realize you aren't trying to insult female writers by complimenting them with the line 'she writes like a man' but it is an insult. (You'd never say an African-American writer writes just like a white man) We can be just as gory and nasty as our male counterparts. There are not a lot of women in the genre but our numbers are growing and we are writing like...horror writers. ASHP

Nov 12, 1998

You know....Being a horror book collector is getting to be a pretty frustrating little hobby. I recently dished out around $200 apiece for Richard Laymon's two new lettered editions of BEASTHOUSE and THE MIDNIGHT TOUR. I bought the books from my favorite book dealer and never really questioned the price. I am happy paying a mark-up if it helps keep a good, private book dealer in business....And I consider them to be an invaluable resource. No, the price wasn't a problem and if you factor in all the great deals a good dealer will be able to find you, it comes close to balancing out.
However....On a recent trip to the Barnes and Noble Website I found these same books for $104 a book. This sucks. I, as an intelligent consumer and as a guy who knows how hard money can be to come by, am actually forced by the market to turn my back on the people who've worked with me firsthand to build up my collection. I don't want to give Barnes and Noble my money when there are men and women out there struggling, busting their asses to keep the horror book dealer alive. But what the hell can I do? Loyalty and good business sense don't mesh at all.
I'm not really sure what the point of all this blathering I'm doing is....It's really common sense that you purchase the product you want for the lowest price available. And when I see B&N advertising Ketchum's THE GIRL NEXT DOOR, McNaughton's THRONE OF BONES, and Braunbeck's THINGS LEFT BEHIND, for half of what I paid.....What the hell can I do?
It makes me feel like a fool, and like a backstabber. But I guess you do whatchya gotta do.
Enough rambling,
Matt

Nov 12, 1998

I know exactly what you mean. Now, before ordering any book from my favorite dealer, I check B&N.com to see if they're offering the book. If they are, that's where I go. I'm not pleased about that - but what other choice do I have? It's not my responsibility to keep my dealer in business - it's my responsibility to keep as much assets in my family's household as possible. Good intentions don't feed the baby!

Nov 13, 1998

Hehe... sometimes.. people need someone to take care of there dirty work... that person is me... I mean anything... need a spy? hit? Whatever.. ispyhumanfly@mylaptop.com Ill be waiting.

Nov 13, 1998

So collectors... What do you do when B & N has put all the competition out of business and they decide that (A.) "We don't need to deep discount anymore, after all we're the only game in town"; or (B.) "There's not a lot of margin in this small-press stuff, let's quit carrying it all together".

Or, how about this one... "Let's tell that small-press guy to stop publishing these controversial writers, they upset people. Let's tell him to tone it down and publish a book by (fill in lame-ass mediocrity of your choice), after all, we're his only major customer, he has to do what we say or go out of business..."

Paranoid? I don't fuckin' think so...

The Piper at the Gates of Dawn

Nov 13, 1998

'So collectors... What do you do when B & N has put all the competition out of business and they decide that (A.) "We don't need to deep discount anymore, after all we're the only game in town"; or (B.) "There's not a lot of margin in this small-press stuff, let's quit carrying it all together".' We go back to the small press publishers, who will obviously experience a resurgence. 'Or, how about this one... "Let's tell that small-press guy to stop publishing these controversial writers, they upset people. Let's tell him to tone it down and publish a book by (fill in lame-ass mediocrity of your choice), after all, we're his only major customer, he has to do what we say or go out of business..."' They won't be his only costumer for long, and the small press publisher will once again fill a niche that's created by demand. To put it another way, refer to the response to first scenario.

The Mad Book Mite With False Teeth

Nov 13, 1998

I try and buy my higher priced limited books from B&N.com when the savings are dramatic(40% or more), other titles that I'd only save a few bucks on, I just buy from my dealer to support him. A lot of the time I pre-order books direct from the publisher before I know if B&N.com are gonna stock it. Bottom line is I try to save as much money as possible without cutting my dealer/publisher out of some loot. Paul

Nov 13, 1998

You're right, it takes B&N a few extra months to actually get the books. Also, remember not only to support your dealers but also the small press publishers by ordering directly from them on occasion. Ordering in advance will often save you a fair amount too.

Nov 14, 1998

And when's the last time a big chain store bought you a pint of beer at a convention?

John Pelan

Nov 14, 1998

I know i'm going to get slammed for this but nothing i can do.

About a month ago my girlfriend orded me a back issue from CD. They said they would mail it within the week. My girlfriend recieved her Visa bill with the money taken for the package. The gift was for my birthday that was to come two weeks later. I didn't get it on my birthday. I didn't get it last week. I STILL haven't got it. We both phoned CD to find out what the hell was going on. As i'm sure some of you have realized they aren't the fastest at returning phone calls. These are long distance charges. So they have her money. We have nothing. Yesturday my girlfriend got a call from them saying that the guy in charge (i dont know his name off hand) his wife had just had a baby and things are backed up.

I'm not a creep. I was like, hey thats fine, i just wish i had known. He has our money. We didn't know what the hell was going on! It was pretty frustrating. On one hand i was ready to pull my subscription and never order from them again after i gave him my what for. But on the other hand how do you get mad when a guy says he's just had a baby? It made me feel pretty small for getting mad. BUT ITS JUST A FUCKING SMALL PRESS GUY!!! I shouldn't have to feel bad! He had our money! We still haven't got our product yet! BUT HE HAD A BABY!!! I wish i could shake his hand and say "thats wonderful! boy or girl?".

I guess my point is that with B&N i would have recieved my order even if the guy that took it went on vacation. If the small press guy leaves we dont know shit. We're fucked. Screwed. Dupped.

Ok come on guys. Stop frothing at the mouth. It's just me, Reanimated. You know i'm a bit screwy anyway! Put down THOSE KNIVES!!!!!

Nov 14, 1998

You have a right to be upset, even small press owners with pregnant wives shouldn't take money without fulfilling orders. Richard Chizmar isn't a teeny press just breaking into the game, he's put out Cemetery Dance magazine for years on end, and has thrown himself full force into the book publishing business. If he had time to nab the money off the Visa card, then he had time to put to the magazine in an envelope and mail it off. HOWEVER, almost all publisher's ads say something like 'please allow 4-6 weeks', so you shouldn't expect immediate turnaround, and of course you're going to give the guy a break because his wife is pregnant. It is sometimes annoying though to see how they can cash your check in half an hour but it take them two months to mail the issue off. He's lost a fair amount of orders on The Midnight Tour and the other books he's does, especially on the limiteds, because it on occasion took him months to send the books out. Read the Laymon boards. Some people lost interest in getting the $200 limiteds when the $30 book was already out.

Nov 14, 1998

REanimated, I know what you mean. I am one of the people who pre-ordered Biofire from CD about two years ago. In their latest mailer they don't even mention it. By pre-ordering I saved the cost of postage/handling. As long as they have had my money in the bank they have already made that cost back and then some. I still don't know when this book is due to be published. A mailer to the forlks who pre-ordered the book would be aprecaited. Take care, Gary D.

Nov 14, 1998

Ray Garton says that both 411 and Biofire should be out within the next couple of weeks. I think some orders on 411 have already started shipping.

Nov 16, 1998

I don't think Rich Chizmar lost out any orders of MIDNIGHT TOUR, he has sold all of them. None left!!!!

Nov 17, 1998

He might not have lost orders, but I'm sure he lost a few potential customers.

Nov 17, 1998

Bigger isn't better unless you're talking cubic inch displacement of a vehicle's engine. Chain stores like Barnes and Noble are the little guy's worst enemy. If I'm going to pay $45+ for a book, I'd rather give the money to some_one_ that some big huge corporation. (sorry Spinner, but that's how it's cut). I'd rather pay for Rich Chizmar's or Matt Johnson's or Dave Barnett's bills than help their competition. See? you can even know the guys by name... try that with your B&N rep. Heh. SO WHAT if Barnes and Noble is offering forty percent off? They own the distribution, the shelf space, and, basically, the industry. Doesn't that terrify anyone with a conscience? Doesn't that make every writer THINK for a moment: "What the fuck?" The fuck with bitching about Microsoft or PC's vs. Macs... this is the thing that's going to eat us alive--corporate politics of the large stores, who, eventually, if not stopped, will control what we write, and what we read. Bentley Little wasn't that far off with THE STORE, folks. If you haven't read that, and are inclined to argue with me, perhaps you should. Your local independant bookseller will probably have it, and if not, be more than happy to order it for you. Giving money to chain stores is putting good people out of business. When there's nothing but shit left on the shelves, someone's going to wonder where all the high-quality small-press books went as they turn the pages to Anne Rice's fifteenth vampire novel, mass market paperback, with an eleven-dollar price tag. "Too expensive" is the most often heard rationalization as to WHY people give the chains their money. Too expensive? At what price do you sell out at? Paperback or hardcover? Argh. Later! --Geoff

Nov 17, 1998

And I'm so pissed off I forgot my HTML breaks. Argh.


Later!

--Geoff

Nov 17, 1998

G-man,
What's up homey? Good to see ya 'round again. Good argument you've got there. But I gotta ask.....You know as well as I do how hard money can be to come by.....What do you do when something like this deal with the Laymon books happens? I mean, you can order them from a indie for $200 apiece, or from B&N for $104 apiece. Christ man, that's a lotta dough, and it was the same way with Koontz' last limited. If collecting is something that you're big on, you reach a point where you almost HAVE to sell out, or you start over-extending yourself. What's a guy going to do.....Besides do without? It's an ugly situation. I told my dealer that I understand how hard it is for him to match those prices, and that the money he saves me in a year on the hard to find stuff probably balances the whole equation out when it's all said and done. But the fact remains....If I want to keep collecting,
I CAN NOT PAY $200 FOR A BOOK WHEN IT IS AVAILABLE FROM ANOTHER OUTLET FOR $104.
Later y'all, Matt

Nov 17, 1998

Please ignore or send verbal abuse to the above "Movi" poster - he has had the nerve to send me threatening and unpleasant e-mail messages - Andy F.

Nov 18, 1998

Matt, I agree with you...like I said earlier. i get the big ticket items(over $100) to B & N...but anything around $60 and below i go to my dealer or the publisher. Rape? How about $40 for the new Poppy collection that's around 180 well spaced pages? How about having all but 3 of the stories already? I love Poppy and will buy anything from her, but that;'s a bit steep. as is Cd's novella HC's and Sub Press' short horror novels are expensive also. Fortunately i have the cash set aside to purchase these, but for some others I feel Your Pain! You should buy what's in your budget and select what you think is the most effective for you. Paul

Nov 20, 1998

"If you have to ask the price, you cannot afford it."

Nov 22, 1998

Okay, I don't get Scavengers. What was in there about Dillon? Seems to have created quite a stir around here lately. Someone care to fill me in on what the Hell is going on?


Later!

--Geoff

Nov 23, 1998

Geoff: Check out T.M.'s board to read about the whole sorry mess...

Nov 23, 1998

Dillon--you fucking scumbag piece of shit!

I can NOT believe someone is SO fucked up--even you. I don't know what kind of toxins you've been pouring into your body recently, but perhaps you should try snorting Drano or smoking styrofoam beads. If vein-tapping is your thing, I suggest either air or bleach.

Come to think of it, don't shoot air into your veins. Deserving life-forms could use it. Getting the picture yet? You. Are. Scum.


Later!

--Geoff

Nov 23, 1998

Does B&N pay the same price for books as independent booksellers do? Or do they extort a bigger discount from the small presses? With a price range of $104-$200 for the same item, it seems like they must get a deeper discount, and that's a problem right there. Small presses shouldn't rant about B&N driving the indies out of business, and then turn around and give B&N a bigger discount. Does that happen? (I already know you don't do this, John.) Just wondering. Bill B.

Nov 23, 1998

B&N does take a higher discount, but they order larger quantities of books. Independent publishers might give a 40% standard discount to bookstores taking 1-5 copies, but be willing to give a 50% discount to places like B&N if they order 30-50 copies.

Nov 23, 1998

So should we NOT BUY any of those 30-50 copies that B&N bought, leading them to conclude that "small-press horror doesn't sell, so we won't be buying any more of THAT."? Would that be good for the field? Oh, it's all so complicated.

Nov 24, 1998

I don't wear any briefs when reading Horror, coz it scares the pants off me!!! Ha Ha! Just a bit of light relief there folks!

William Clinton

Nov 24, 1998

What an idiot!

Nov 24, 1998

Yip, he runs America! Nuff said.

Nov 24, 1998

No, the guy signed as *William* Clinton, not as Hillary.


Later!

--Geoff

Nov 24, 1998

Now THAT'S comedy! Hillary's really the Prez. Gee, that's such a hoot. I haven't heard that since the last time I saw some asshole's bumper sticker.

So, Geoff, HOW is Hillary the President? Enlighten us, please.

Fox Muldar

Nov 24, 1998

You "heard" a bumper-sticker? You must be having some of whatever Dillon's been smoking...

Sullivan Tinwhistle

Nov 24, 1998

Maybe, Muldar, I have slightly different political beliefs than you. Regardless, that is not what I was here to discuss.

I merely came by to see if that bloodclot called Dillon has been around. Guess not. Dare I hope he's taken a hint?


Later!

--Geoff

Nov 25, 1998

You don't need me to throw mindless insults around, Geoff. Now, if you start posting something that suggests an intellect is hiding somewhere within the narrow confines of your head, I might acknowledge your existence with something other than an admonishment of your childlike qualities. Dillon

Nov 25, 1998

Geoff,

Regardless of what you're "here to discuss," you brought up the subject of Hillary and her alleged surrogate presidency. Different "political beliefs" doesn't explain *unfounded* political beliefs, Geoff. Whatever your political beliefs, I hope you have some basis in fact for them. I'm merely asking you to let us know the basis for your reference to Hillary's alleged presidency. Or are you in the habit of parroting the blather you *see* on bumper stickers?

Dillon,

You're still slug spit.

Fox M.

Nov 25, 1998

TM, or Fox, or whatever you want to call yourself, you must really enjoy the game Trivial Pursuit. Don't you ever have anything important to say? Or do? Ted B.

Nov 25, 1998

Ted B.,

Was I addressing you? Are you "Geoff"? If you aren't, then mind you're damned business. This is supposed to be an open forum--who the hell are you to decide what's important? Asshole!

Fox M. (NOT TM)

Nov 25, 1998

What I meant by the Hilary comment, Fox, was merely light comedy. I think Slick Willie’s wife is running the show. I believe that she’s got the brains, he’s got the title.

Dillon: haven't you been blown up enough? Or are you merely masochistic? I don't think there's one person on these boards who agrees with what you've done or your rationalizations of it. Even if there were a handful of people, or, for that matter a legion, I'd still state "scumbag" every time your name was mentioned in my presence, which, thankfully is not very often, unless of course, we're laughing at you.


Later!

--Geoff

Nov 25, 1998

I guess there isn't an intellect hiding anywhere within the narrow confines of your head after all, Geoff. But perhaps there's still some hope. Tell me, Geoff, should somebody be hounded for something he did years ago, which he apologized for years ago, simply so you can enjoy a good laugh at his expense? Is that what you're all about, Geoff? If so, take heart, because you're still better than Pelan, T.M., Ray and a few others, who keep bringing it up because it's simply the only weapon they have to wield against me. They don't use it to chase me off the boards, because they know from experience that it doesn't work. They've brought it up at least three times already, and I'm still here. And I don't think it's a good laugh they're after. In fact, I think it's not funny to them at all. Indeed, I think they feel ashamed and disappointed in themselves for having to resort to such lowly tactics. But I threaten them so much that they do it anyway. And they do it for you and Andy and others they haven't yet turned against me. You're a pawn in this game, Geoff. Nothing more. Dillon

Nov 25, 1998

Dillon: Seems to me that I've never brought up the topic in question. Nor do I really have any interest in your writing career whatsoever. As I've stated before, I may have made a few light-hearted jabs at your theories of social engineering; but that's been about it... Oh yeah, I HAVE suggested that the ability to admit you're wrong is quite an asset; (of course at that suggestion the first words you typed were "I was right...").

While I continue to learn a good deal from you, it's become apparent that nothing I say to you, (no matter how well-intentioned) has any effect. That being the case, continue with your own unique brand of fiction, continue to rail at and vilify those who offer helpful advice, continue to post obnoxious rhetoric no matter how many time that you're asked to desist; in short, just continue being the Dillon that we're all quite familiar with. As far as comments directed to me go, the only thing I want to hear from you is: "Do you want fries with that?" next time I'm in Phoenix...

John Pelan

Nov 25, 1998

Dillon, your superiority complex is an amazing creature to behold, for certain. It swells and swells whenever you realize that nobody really gives a damn any more about you than anyone else. The only game played here is the one where you force the focus of attention off a topic by your willful ignorance and antagonistic attitude on all matters. You berate all authors, and indeed all writers who get paid, because you care more for philosophizing than for reality. Your constant cries that fellow posters don't understand your points or change the context of your meaning are merely hollow arguments you set up to serve your massive ego. Sadly, you've done nothing in your life--certainly not your literary one, if it can be called a 'career' (you seem not to do much in the field, or care much for the field at all), and so you perfer to create vast conspiracies in your imagination to help ease your conscience for causing so much friction and ugliness. No, Dillon, you are not the defender of truth you claim to be, and even you're holier than though cries in the night come off fairly childish and downright whiney. I agree that intellectual discussions are what most of us relish most about MOT and other boards, but sadly, your aggressiveness to attack others is what calls the flames to you. I still recall the day you posted begging T.M. and Ray and anyone else to comment on your stories, and when the comments were negative you proclaimed the critiquers did so in an effort to berate you further. I've seen T.M.'s other posts on here and he has about the same mix of pro and con comments for all the other authors as he gave to you, but none of them shrieked and yowled the way you did. I almost thought you a real writer in that moment because you showed a sensitive, if self-serving, soul, right before you lambasted all those you'd asked to comment on your tales and started claiming that they'd fallen into your 'trap.' Funny how you claim to always be merely a victim, but you've the forethought to set traps. Should you be hounded for your plagiarism? If you showed a true sense of repentance rather than your endless stream of arrogance, then perhaps some could be more forgiving. But you keep the homefires burning because you always offer up the white-hot friction that keeps you rolling confident in your abilities to wreak havoc, if not entertain through writing. I once asked you why you come to these boards when you've stated repeatedly that you don't care a damn for T.M.'s or anyone else's comments or thoughts. I stated a number of possible topics concerning writers and writing and horror that we could have possibly had an intellectual discussion about. If you'd taken that gauntlet instead, you might have proven a useful member of these boards. Instead, you claimed all those topics bored you and that all posters were insincere and that all fans of these authors were 'groupies', and immediately turned your full attentions back on causing grief for all. You're the puppy, sadly barking as the rest of us talk, and you need to shit and piss and vomit and mess the place up to force attention in your direction. Wyatt

Nov 25, 1998

'A good laugh at you expense" Dillon?...I don't think a single writer on this board (nor any I've ever met) finds plagiarism amusing. S.W.

Nov 26, 1998

Plagiarism? That's a big word. The vasiferous contributions of viably contentious individuals frankly oozes obstreporousness. Basically, I've had more mature sperm than the musings on this board.

Pubic Mess

Nov 27, 1998

Can't we all just get along? Rodney

Nov 28, 1998

Dillon, You suck! Fuck you and your weak world. Die. Peter S.

Nov 28, 1998

You're right. No intellect. I mean, gee whiz, compared to you, Dillon, I guess everyone's a fucking idiot. After all, you ARE the mastermind who states that coke and dust should be legalized and the government can be replaced with a thousand citizens with home computers.


Later!

--Geoff

PS: super-size my fries.

Nov 28, 1998

A thousand citizens wasn't my idea, Geoff. It was the product of a think-tank. It would work much better if all citizens could participate. Those, of course, who chose to do so. As for legalizing street drugs, it's already headed in that direction. You have to be pretty damn dense not to see that the 'war on drugs' is failing miserably. SF,CA, Washington, DC, Vancouver, CAN. and several other cities are going to experiment along those lines or already are. Five or six states passed medical use of such drugs this Nov.. It's coming!

John, you participated once it started. And why should I say I'm wrong when I'm not? How often do *you* say you're wrong when you're not? When I believe I'm wrong, I admit it. If I don't do so, it means I believe I'm right. Butter knives or whatever.

Wyatt, you're not too bad at twisting the truth, but you're not good enough to fool the people who take the time to check out the facts. I only attack people who attack me or have attacked me and that I know will continue to attack me. Like you, Wyatt. I attack T.M. for the same reason. I don't cause trouble on other boards. You and a few others attack me on other boards and I respond accordingly. Of course, Andy deletes most of it, so anyone new to these boards will just have to watch it all unfold again. As I'm sure it will. You guys just never learn. And it's all going to come back on you in time. Except for those like you, Wyatt, who are too cowardly to use your own names. No, Wyatt, it's you guys who are my waggly-tongued puppies. You just can't help but follow me from broad to broad. I'm your obsession. Prove me wrong -- if you can. Lets see how long you guys can go without insulting me like school children. I bet you're already thinking of ways to rationalize your failures.

Dillon

Nov 29, 1998

Sadly, Dillon, you continue to prove me right, with your paranoid antics and desperate cries of being victimized. It's no conspiracy that says you're a fool, Dillon, you simply are one. You're not an obsession, you're just a parasite who feeds on friction. Show me how wrong I am, let's see how long you can keep from causing further troubles. But a rat always squeals loudest when it's cornered. Wyatt

Nov 29, 1998

You couldn't even hold out one day, Wyatt. I'm not surprised either. I'm sure you're rubbing the sleep from your eyes as you read this, having fallen asleep in front of your computer awaiting my reply. I bet you print out all my posts and paste them on the walls of your room. It must worry your parents terribly. Dillon

Nov 29, 1998

You know Dillion there are some people out here that read your posts and can see where you are coming from. Can see that you arn't really THAT bad. I'm one of them. These boards aren't a big deal and shouldn't be taken as serious as you are taking them. I know in the past some people have said things to me and i was steaming. boy oh boy was i steaming. And i can understand that every once in awhile getting mad because someone says something you dont like. But even i can see that these guys are gonna taunt you till you settle down and your name doesn't appear for a couple weeks. I dont mind you being here Dillion (besides the fact it's a free world) but even i'm getting sick of reading your posts and those of the people that respond to you. Please, i know you have more to contribute than all this shit. you must have read a book or seen a movie lately that you could do a review on. Or maybe you know something about H.G. Wells. Anything.

Nov 29, 1998

Anon., I post on other topics all the time. Go to the Shirley board or to the New Author board. As long as 'they' don't interfere, things go swimmingly. It's 'them' you should be appealing to, not me. But (if you're 'for real') I appreciate your intentions just the same. Dillon

Nov 29, 1998

Dillon, you paranoid psychopath, if you would ever stop antagonizing people, things would probably go a lot more 'swimmingly' than they already do. Calling all Christians gay-bashers really doesn't endear you to anyone. This remains the Master of Terror board, not the 'Dillon wants to reconstruct society' Boards. Talk literature and movies or get out. Nobody's interested.

Nov 29, 1998

Bashing all Christians with your blanket statements again, eh, Dillon? Didn't even take you a day to start causing trouble once more. At least you chose another topic: it didn't have anything to do with any topics related to these boards, as you continue to whine and wreak havoc. As I've asked before, and you've chosen to ignore, exactly why are you here? It's not to add anything, it's merely to gain another platform for what John Pelan rightfully calls your ridiculous belies on "sorcial engineering." Heh heh. You aren't entertaining in what you say, but it's pretty fun watching your constant allusions to the secret society of They & Them. Suck in the friction, man, you remind me of an addict crawling on all fours looking for another grain of dope. Wyatt

Dec 1, 1998

has anyone read the new brian lumely book??????

Dec 1, 1998

Nearly as unpalatable a subject as the preceding topic...

Dec 4, 1998

Prejudices are not confined to any race or sect. Stop looking for scapegoats and flex your fuckin' head.

Dec 4, 1998

So is there any kind of award this site can be put up for? I think without doubt now it is by far the best Horror site on the web and it's service to the industry is superb. Well done, Andy F

An impressed visitor.

Dec 4, 1998

Check out the Shirley board if you want to see how Dillon's need for friction and constantly agressive manner has managed to bore and antagonize yet another author until he prefers not to post rather than get stuck in a never-ending sophistry.

Dec 5, 1998

Peter S., why don't you just shut the fuck up and go back to your "strong world", where no doubt the brutish inhabitants are wont to treat you as their "bitch" - leading to your incessant whining on this board.

Da Pimply Pimp

Dec 5, 1998

If anyone who is going to the WHC99 needs a room, we've got space in ours...It's a two bed and I'm claiming the floor, so you'll get a bed...Split three ways it's roughly $175 a person...Brian Keene

Dec 9, 1998

Impressed visitor - thanks! It is reward enough to know that someone is getting something out of this site other than myself! (I supose the 1,000 per week visit count means I must be doing something right!)

Here is a list of interpretations of my name since I started this website:
Andy Fair - This is the most common error of all. Oh how I regret setting up that e-mail name.
Mr. Fair - A more formal version of the above
Andy Fairhead - This was a good one, but I've got dark hair!
Andy Fairlow - hmmm....must have been thinking of that Fairweather-Low chap.
Andy Faircluff - Close but no cigar.

Oh and back to the small press thing. Following on from Richard Laymon's recent posts on his board, I think it sucks that those who have paid the extra money for the special edition of A WRITER'S TALE have got to wait a couple of months longer than those who ordered the numbered edition. I've ordered the latter (luckily) and it's been a long enough wait for that edition (initially promised for August) which may finally see the light of day soon. It must be annoying for those buying the special edition at a much greater cost to know that the numbered edition is coming out a couple of months earlier.

Andy Fairclough.

Dec 10, 1998

Hey y'all....I just posted some new book reviews over at that board if anyone is interested....It'd be kinda cool to read some other views, arguments or whatever.
Later, Matt

Dec 11, 1998

Andy, I bought the lettered and am a bit peeved, but I do get the extra cut-out chapters of TWAD with it...so...Laymon's worth waiting for. Paul

Dec 14, 1998

Let's face it, no rebuke, no complaint, no amount of histrionics, no impeachment of his ethics, no name-calling, fact-finding, no WORDS will sway Dillon from his appointed rounds. He values words only insomuch as he can use them against others. Calling him pathetic, mean-spirited, a plagiarist, a lousy writer, an even lousier thinker, a pox on humanity, and an odoriferous festering boil only serve to make him feel even more important, only serve to boost his poor ego. This we can not bear, but bear it we must because he is, after all, one of us. That is to say, he's a human being--all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding. He will come to these boards and spew his bile until his fingers fail him because he feels that here, at least, and sadly, SOMEONE is listening to him, SOMEONE is responding to him, SOMEONE CARES if he's alive. Well, we do care, Dillon. So go ahead, spew. As a human being, you're entitled. Fox Mulder's Older Sister

Dec 14, 1998

The only bile I see spewing forth, is yours.

Dec 14, 1998

OK:...I know that I'm going to regret asking this but; What exactly is the history of Dillon on this board?...I've only been online for a few months and was only recently guided here by Geoff, Arensburg, and John Pelan...The only thing that I know for sure about Dillon is that I find some of his postings vitriolic and inane...However, there have also been things Dillon has said here that I most certainly agreed with and found comendable...I'm not attacking Dillon, per say, just saying that I disagree with some of what he's said...He has the right to say it...I have the right to disagree...Judging from what I read here, there must be more to the story...I have seen allegations of plagirism and other things...What is the story behind all that?...I'd like for all you regulars to fill this young pup in on the past history (and Dillon, you are welcome to chime in too)...I like to be informed before I go judging someone...Something tells me that I'm opening a proverbial Pandoras Box by asking these questions, but what the hell...I can't be the only newbie to these boards...So let's here the tale people...I'm sitting here with a Guinness in hand, waiting...Brian Keene

Dec 14, 1998

The only bile spewing forth is MINE? Huh? I don't get it, Mr. Anon. I don't get it. Enlighten me, please. I want to be enlightened (Inquiring minds want to know!).

By the way, Mr. Anon, you put a comma in your sentence that just doesn't belong there. And you call yourself a writer! NOT!

I think Dillon is a less-than-acceptable human being. I think Dillon is a disgrace to humanity. I think Dillon should be shot into space and forgotten. But I also love Dillon because he's a poor misguided soul who merely needs to learn the value of constructive thought.

Brian Keene, take heed: Once you start talking about Dillon, his ego will swell to the size of Cleveland and no one will be able to stop him. But no one WANTS to stop him, you see, because it's so much fun berating him and beating up on him and calling him names. Poor little Dillon LOVES IT.

And I love Dillon. Really I do. I think he's the hairiest, scariest, daringest boy scout to ever come down the pipe, er, pike, er, hell, you know what I mean.

Dillon should have his own message board. We'd call it the "Beat Up On Michael Thomas Dillon Because He Doesn't Know How to Think Or Write Board" and we could all go there and spit on him and shit on him and fart at him and watch him lap it all up because he'd be the center of attention. What a fantastic boy scout, what a MAN!

I want him between my loins, brothers and sisters. I want him to stick his red hot member into my throbbing love zone and I want it WET and WILD and HAIRY, as only Dillon knows how to do it. And when we're done I want him to turn to me and mutter, as only he knows how, "Sorry about my breath. I eat shit all the time. They make me do it."

But for now, I'll have to dream and hope and yearn.

Ah, Dillon, Dillon, take me!

Fox's Older Sister, Foxette

Dec 14, 1998

I'd suggest, Brian, that if you really want to know the story behind it all, you should read the archives on this board, T. M. Wright's and John Shirley's. Keep in mind, if you do so, that some of the more offensive posts directed at me have been removed, except on this board, by Andy. So some of my posts are out of context as a result. In fact, not having checked lately, Andy may have removed all traces of my existence from the archives. In that case, I guess you'll just have to rely on hearsay. I've said all I need to say on the matter in previous posts, and have nothing further to add. Dillon

Dec 15, 1998

Aw, Dillon's peeved. Poor Dillon!

Dec 17, 1998

Argh.


Later!

--Geoff

Dec 17, 1998

Okay--this is something sure to get a few responses, or, at least, I hope so. The current Iraq strikes--what's the consensus here? If you ask me, we wouldn't be over there now if we did the job correctly the first time...


Later!

--Geoff

Dec 17, 1998

Stopped the imminent impeachment though didn't it? The Russians don't want Saddam dead because of weapons sales, so the people of Baghdad have to suffer. Same thing happened to Maggie Thatcher re: the Falklands. "Hmm, I'm a bit unpopular in the polls...I know, I'll bomb someone". Works every time.

Dec 17, 1998

A tribute to Michael Thomas Dillon

I WRITE THE STORIES

(to be sung to the tune of "I Write The Songs")

I Write The Stories That Make The Whole World Cringe,

I Write The Stories But Won't Listen To Criticism,

I'll Steal The Stories That Were Originally Yours

I Write the Stories , I'll Rewrite Your Stories

Dec 17, 1998

No, as a matter of fact, the bombing of Irag didn't "stop the impeachment"--it postponed it a few days. Even Clinton, a very smart man who's done some very stupid things, wouldn't believe that a bonehead play like the last- minute bombing of an enemy would play well with the public at large. It's clear that his motives were, more or less, pure. Hell, his poll numbers are UP (so the comparison to Thatcher and the Falklands was off base). Let's face it--the republicans have been after Clinton ever since he took the oath of office. They don't like him or his wife or his nubile young daughter. They believe that the Clintons represent rampant liberalism at a time when--according to the deaf and blind republicans--the public was ripe for stasis. So, at last, they think they've got him by the balls. They don't, of course, but the momentary embarassment they're causing him is giving all of them really wet drawers. The horror, the horror... Fox Muldar

Dec 17, 1998

What an idiot!

Dec 17, 1998

"Even Clinton, a very smart man who's done some very stupid things, wouldn't believe that a bonehead play like the last- minute bombing of an enemy would play well with the public at large." Me thinks, you underestimate the man's boneheadness. Also, they do have him by the balls, and he was boneheaded enough to dangle them within their reach. If he's a "very smart man", I must be a fucking genius!

Butthead

Dec 17, 1998

Get rid of Clinton. Bring Regan back. Or Bush. Or Carter. They were all very clever. Oh yes, America - you have my sympathies.

Mikhail Gorby

Dec 17, 1998

Butthead,

Recently, the only stupid man to make it to the presidency was Ronald Reagan, and he did it because of his "Aw Shucks!" charm and his acting ability which, though marginal, was enough to hoodwink the less-than-bright electorate.

Shit, Clinton has bounced back from all kinds of foibles, all kinds of stupidity BECAUSE he's a smart man. Lots of smart men are ruled by their genitalia, just as lots of smart people are ruled by their belief in a mythical supreme being. Intelligence, emotion and sex do not happily coexist, Butthead. Ted Bundy was, reportedly, an extremely bright man, as was Ted Kozinsky--where are they now? Get it, Butthead? Intelligence alone does not predispose anyone to common sense. There's lot more in the mix that makes us human than what may or may not be between our ears (or between our legs, for that matter).

And no, Butthead, I doubt that anyone is going to mistake you for a "fucking genius."

Merry Christmas.

F.M.

Dec 17, 1998

Charm is Clinton's only saving grace. He's about as smarted as a stuffed animal.

Dec 17, 1998

Sorry, "What an idiot!!" and whomever:

The facts of Clinton's political life are a perfect rebuttal to your, uh, argument (if that's what your "stuffed animal" comment amounts to). He'll weather this latest storm, as he has so many others, not because he's charming, but because he's politically savvy and because he is, obviously, intelligent. Everything I've said above is true, your knee-jerk responses notwithstanding. By the way, I'm not in love with everything the man stands for--on some fronts he's too conservative for me (his death penalty stance, for instance); I am merely talking about him as a man, not as someone I support (though I support him more than I supported Reagan or Bush or any other goddamned Republican).

By the way, the "What an idiot!!" guy is becoming something of a cliche'. Have you no cogent comments to make, or is "What an idiot!" about as far as your brain can stretch? Uh-huh. Thought so.

Fox

Dec 17, 1998

"The only bile I see spewing forth, is yours."

Sorry for this late report, but you have used a comma where it is not required. You will receive five demerits and will be sent to a school for people who can not punctuate or think. We, like Clinton, live in hope (Hope) that you will one day awaken to the proper necessity and use of commas in everyday living and that you will come to these boards armed with that knowledge. So armed, we will be forewarned, and your blasphemous posts will be deleted by our post deleter, Miss McArvy. She's tall, freckled, bespectacled, and as thin as spaghetti. But her boobs are enormous and her twat is lively.

In short, WHAT AN IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bye bye.

Fox's older cousin, Stella, who has no boobs whatever, but whose ass cheeks are worth cuddling.

Dec 18, 1998

This guy thinks Dillon has a big ego? I'm with you, Anon. What an idiot! does say it all.

Butthead

Dec 18, 1998

I just hope the gung-ho yankie boys don't kill as many British troops as they did in '92. I always presumed we were on the same side, but with more Brits killed by the Americans than the Iraqi's, who needs fucking enemies?

Dec 18, 1998

Let us go then, you and I, when the evening is spread out against the sky, like a patient etherized upon a table. Let us go through certain half deserted streets...

You know, some of you people could use a sense of humor. Must be a bunch of Republicans (maybe you work for the Republican Guard, eh?). Butthead, especially, seems to be in need of laughter. So let's make him laugh. Oops, don't know how. Maybe he can't laugh. Maybe he can't even smile.

Oh, and anon, with his "What an Idiot!" remark--sheesh, now THERE'S comedy! THERE'S intelligence. A more constructive remark has probably never been written. I wonder if he thought of it himself. I wonder if that's his view of the world at large. He stands on street corners in LA or Seattle or Schenectady and he stares at passersby and mutters to himself, "What an idiot!" over and over again, 'cuz, you know, he's got it figured out, he's got life figured out. I'm happy for him.

But I gotta say, my feelings are hurt here. I write this brilliant comedy material and all I get are responses from morons. I'm surrounded by morons on this board. Morons to the left of me, morons to the right of me, volleyed and spit up.

But the snow's falling, you know, so I'm happy, 'cuz it's Christmas time and we are in desperate need of snow, and my twat is all delighted with it.

Yes, I do believe that Dillon's got a big ego, but I also feel sorry for him because he's obviously very unhappy. I'm serious about that. A small mind in a large body.

Anyway.

Fox Muldar's big sister Twadeedle, who sleeps with chickens and wakes up with feathers.

Dec 18, 1998

*Butthead* has named himself well.

L.Q.W.

Dec 18, 1998

Personnally, I'm sorry we have to bomb Iraq, but what else could the UN do? We've given that jackass enough time to cooperate so now his people have to suffer, once the people say "you be out, Saddam" then we'll come in make a new parking lot of Iraq and start over. Simple. As far as republicans not having a sense of humor...ever here of Newtie and Livvingstone...two fucking jokes! Paul

Dec 18, 1998

I vote for letting Israel assissinate Saddam. It will cost less lives and US and British tax dollars....Brian Keene

Dec 19, 1998

The UN didn't bomb Iraq, the US and Brits did. Italy, France, Russian and China are all against the bombing. Most of the Arab nations are against the bombing. Even Iran, and they don't like Iraq at all.

America, by forcing its will on other countries in such an arrogant and elitist fashion, is much more a threat to world peace than Iraq will ever be. Countries like Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan and others are all wondering who America will single out next to try to bully into submission.

Russian is very vulnerable right now, which doesn't set too well with them, and they no doubt feel quite threatened by America's show of aggression in the world theater of late. The Bear is wounded, and, like an animal, a country under such circumstances becomes quite dangerous and unpredictable.

America's we-know-what's-best-for-everybody attitude and their flogging of countries by way of sanctions or military action if they don't listen and obey is going to propel us right back into a Cold War. Only we won't be able to blame communism for this one, because this time it'll be westernism that's trying to take over the world.

Dillon

Dec 19, 1998

I hate to resort to Ted Nugent-ian logic, but Dillon....As bullish, arrogant, and inflated as this country is....Would you rather live somewhere else? What's stopping you from going there?
America, for all its shortcomings, still offers its people the best possible life....Decent jobs, decent roads, decent schools, and a decent legal system....Nothing outstanding, but average the all together and I'd say we're still a cut above the rest. And again, if you don't agree, then leave.
Ted's Brother.

Dec 19, 1998

Dillon:

This "show of aggression" that you decry seems to be the only logical course of action to pursue in order to prevent a stockpiling (and possible use) of weapons of mass destruction by a very capricious and unstable despot. Would you prefer to wait until some biological weapons are unleashed and then chastise Iraq? War is an unpleasant affair, but it seems we got in a bit of a mess some sixty years ago by standing around and doing nothing while a similar madman began to pursue his dreams of world conquest.

You live in the Southwest. When you find a scorpion in the house, do you let it run about and wait to see if it will sting you? Or, knowing the nature of the scorpion for what it is, do you take appropriate action and squash it before it harms someone? But I forget, your the guy that's all for selling guns to maniacs that have stated their intent is to "blow someone away"...

Just another viewpoint...

Your pal,

The Piper at the Gates of Dawn

Dec 19, 1998

There is absolutely no evidence that Saddam is a 'madman.' The invasion of Kuwait by Iraq was the result of a long-standing territorial dispute in which we had no business interfering. The man was quite simply demonized by our government to justify our involvement in the conflect. The oil in Kuwait was our government's only concern in the matter, because the Iraqis would have grown more wealthy and ultimately more powerful if it were in their possession. But it was not the build-up of Iraq's military that our government feared. It was the power they would gain in the global oil market. Enough power to influence prices. And with Iraq not being particularly fond of America -- our government didn't much like that notion.

As a result of all this, our government has had to treat Saddam as the ‘madman' they unjustly claimed him to be in order to keep their true motives for the Gulf War in the shadows. And this subterfuge, in turn, could quite possibly shake world peace from its already unstable foundation.

Dillon

Dec 19, 1998

Dillon you amaze me.
Quit listening to Art Bell and get back to studying the form and structure of good fiction....Remember? You were going to prove us all wrong with that "You'll never publish in a major anthology as long as you live" theory.
Demonize shmeonize....Yes, it was oil that started this mess and it's oil that's kept it going, but it the meantime we've got a guy who IS making biological and chemical weapons and who's country IS known for terrorist activities and a country that HAS made numerous assaults on some of its otherwise peaceful neighbors.
We can't protect our petroleum interests AND ignore the Hussein element. The two go hand in hand....Protect one and tackle the other. It's global politics. Get used to it.
Matt

Dec 19, 1998

Ted's brother,

Please, please, please, let's leave Ted-I-gotta-big-gun-and-I'm-going-to-kill-something-with-it Nugent out of this discussion. Your "Love it or Leave It" philosophy died at Kent State, my friend, or are you really of the opinion that criticism of the way our government does business is tantamount to treason? If I've got a beef, and it involves the government, you bet your ass I'll air that beef. It's my right and my duty as a citizen and, hell, as a human being. You've been watching too much John Wayne, Leo. Try to remember what this country really IS all about.

T.M. Wright

Dec 19, 1998

What really bothers me most is that Saddam is unaffected and his people pay the price. I was in the Navy during the bombing of Libya and that was when Iraq was still our "ally". We had an Iraqi airborne unit stationed onboard our ship. These guys were just like everyone else (except that they had the shittiest cigarettes I've ever tasted). They were freinds man. Here we are almost ten years later and now the navy is back there bombing THEM. I am not at all happy with the current government we have, in fact some would probably label me an "militia militant" (they would be wrong). But the fact is that this is still the best country I've ever been to, with England and Jamaica being a close second and third. Saddam is a menace, plain and simple. Whether this current bombing has anything to do with that or not, the fact remains that he is dangerous! He must be taken out, for the sake of other countries. I think we should leave that up to Israel or his own people, but if they are incapable then we must act, no matter how unpalatable it may be. Russia, China, and France don't like it? So fucking what. Russia is falling apart and should worry about themselves. China's own human rights violations put them on the same level as Saddam, so of course they don't like it. And France?...Well any country that considers Jerry Lewis a genius must not be taken seriously...Brian Keene

Dec 19, 1998

Here's how we solve The Iraqui Problem.

Now, we go to the streets of Anytown, U.S.A., find your crackhead hookers, (there were a few on this board a while back) and ascertain which of the crackhead hookers have the _worst_ PMS. Then, we equip these PMSing jonesing hookers with transport to Baghdad and a 9mm or two, say "Hey, you whack this crazy son of a bitch," (Meaning Saddam, not Dillon) "and we'll hook you up with a Jumbo Jammie and a bottle of Midol for your cramps." Then, set them loose. How much you want to bet Saddam doesn't make it through the night?

Relax. I'm only partially serious.


Later!

--Geoff

Dec 19, 1998

TM fuck off.
Simple as that alright? I was making fun of Ted Nugent and if you're ass didn't have such an awe-inspiring pucker factor you would've realized that. There isn't jack shit in my post that has anything to do with crazed patriotism and Love or leave it IS NOT the main point of that post and you goddam well know it.
Read again slim, and you'll see that I agree that our government operates on fucked-up protocols and self-serving morals. You'll also see that my main argument suggests that: As bad as all this shit is, the USA is still a pretty darn nice place to live. I couldn't have the life that I have here anywhere else and I don't think you could either. That's not an incredibly patriotic statement and I'm sure no one will use it for the 2000 Campaign. THE USA....FUCKED UP, BUT NO RANGOON.
That was the point of my post and you know it.
Really TM, occassionally you take this anti-gun, anti-John Wayne mentality way too far and you start seeing it where it doesn't exist.
That's a terribly Dillon-esque behavior pattern to fall into and I can only hope that this is an abberation.
Ted's brother (by marriage)

Dec 19, 1998

'...we've got a guy who IS making biological and chemical weapons and who's country IS known for terrorist activities and a country that HAS made numerous assaults on some of its otherwise peaceful neighbors.' This describes the majority of countries in that region, Matt. And it also describes a good number of countries throughout the world. Us included.

Matt and Brian, if we line them all up against us, with our bullying tactics of sanctions and bombings, they'll drag us down by sheer weight of their numbers and tear our throats out. And the fact that our culture relies heavily on the consumption of oil -- doesn't give us the right to put millions of innocence Iraqis through hell via sanctions and bombings! The latter of which IS a terrorist act, when you consider our selfish motives. We want something and we're using violence and the threat of the same in an attempt to get it. We are no better than them, and a far greater menace to world peace because of our military might.

And you better worry about Russian, China, N. Korea and a good many others who have weapons of mass destruction at their deposal. And Iraq is included in that list. Shrugging them off with a ‘So fucking what!' is the exact kind of blind arrogance that will ultimately bring about our destruction. That, coupled with our hypocrisy and school-yard-bully mentality. Dillon

Dec 20, 1998

Bravo, Dillon. You make good points on this issue which aren't based on a perspective guided by US self-interest but on a more objective appraisal of the current situation in the Middle East and its historical background. In this regard, you do provide a worthwhile voice in this public forum. Hopefully the bitterness and hostility of the past can at least be put on the backburner and for some time meaningful discussion can ensue here, without recourse to personal attacks and such.

Dec 20, 1998

Ted's Brother,

Thanks for your reasoned response.

Please don't tell me what I "know." I know what I read in your post, and what I read in your post dictated my response. I did not see that you were "making fun" of T. Nugent, I saw that you were taking Dillon to task for, apparently, not believing that this country is the greatest place in the universe and that no other place in the universe can offer the same unlimited opportunities for personal advancement, and that, indeed, if he DID know all that, and still persisted in his criticisms, why didn't he simply leave. That's jingoistic; it smacks of the "Love or Leave It" malarkey that I was subjected to, personally, in the sixties. Hence, my response.

The net is an interesting place, isn't it, Ted's brother? If you and I were at a party at a friend's house, and we were having this discussion, I doubt your response to my comments would have been as vitriolic as they were. But here we are, simply words on a screen, no personal contact whatever. What a setup for lousy behavior.

But then, this is "The Cellar," isn't it? To hell with reasoned response, intelligent discussion, et cetera. It's every ego for itself.

T.M.

Dec 20, 1998

TM

Being a good writer, which you are, in no way qualifies one as an expert on human nature. It has no affect on one's ability to understand the actions, reactions, and motivations of his fellow man.
Fact is, you don't know me. Fact is, if we were at a party and you'd spoken up and criticized my commentary as "love it or leave it" patriotic bullshit, I would've laughed at you. And then I would've responded exactly how I did here.
I'm being even here. Fair if you will. You are too quick to judge TM, a fault that you exhibit from time to time whenever a subject comes up that you feel strongly about. I can't blame you for that, because we're all a bit like that when it comes to things that we really believe in.
Being fair, let's take a look at my original post. ***I hate to resort to Ted Nugent-ian logic***
This doesn't sound like a joke to you? Comparing my little thread of commentary to the maniacal ravings of a tone-deaf mad man?
***As bullish, arrogant, and inflated as this country is***
Patriotic? Love it or leave it? Hmmmmm
***Would you rather live somewhere else? What's stopping you from going there?***
An honest, fair question. If the actions of this country sicken and disgust, where is one to go?
***America, for all its shortcomings, still offers its people the best possible life....Decent jobs, decent roads, decent schools and a decent legal system...NOTHING OUTSTANDING, but aveage them all together and I'd say we're at least a cut above the rest.***
This doesn't sound like pep-rally material to me. It sounds like I'm describing our country accurately. That is, nothing outstanding, but better than the options.
***And again, if you don't agree, why not leave?***
Who would live in a place as horrible and despicable as the America Dillon describes if that same country wasn't making available a style of life that you found pleasant and tolerable?

TM, you enjoy a good rant as well as the next guy. Because of your adeptness at the weaving of language you very often come across as a pontificating blowhard, even when you sometimes don't mean to. You read too much into my post friend. You brought too much of your ideology into my text, if you will. I meant exactly what I said in my second post, and if we WERE at a party you could've seen my smile, my body language, and the other non-verbal cues I was sending out to lighten up the brevity of my statement.
No, I don't think America is Shangri-La and yes, I think we are very often an evil, ugly giant. But in this country I am able to make a living doing something I love. Eat as much as I see fit to eat. Buy any book I see fit. See dirty movies. Buy dirty magazines. Protest my government without fear of imprisonment or death. Drive on decent roads. Send and receive mail through a semi-reliable postal sytem. It's all checks and balances, and for me, and most others, this country offers a style of life that I find agreeable.
That was my point TM, and I believe you missed it.
Ted's illigitimate brother twice removed by marriage

Dec 20, 1998

I will pay $500 cash money to see TM Wright (a self-professed big man) stage a best of three falls Cage match with Terrible Ted Nugent himself (another big man). We'll have the event in the Pontiac Silverdome and sell tickets, the proceeds can go to the charity of the winners choice.
You KNOW Ted Nugent is 100% everything that TM is against! And Ted, well he's always saying he's the alpha male.
Let's do it! It doesn't really matter who takes the ass-whooping, it'd be cool to see The Undertaker bust in and beat the shit out of both their all-talk and no business pansy-asses! WOULDN'T IT!?!
Tee-hee,
Going Anonymous on this one!

Dec 20, 1998

Jingoism--n--Chauvinistic advocacy of an aggressive, warlike foreign policy.

Jingoism--n--A word used by buttholes to try to appear smarter than the asshole they're arguing with.
Mr. Webster

Dec 20, 1998

Ted's brother twice removed,

Possibly, at a party, I would have seen your body language, your little smile, et cetera. This isn't a party, though. Not in the generally accepted sense of the word, anyway. This is the internet. I can't see your body language, blah, blah. I can only read your words and try to read between the lines. And what I read, I will reiterate, was jingoistic malarkey, your explanation notwithstanding.

You write, "But in this country I am able to make a living doing something I love. Eat as much as I see fit to eat. Buy any book I see fit. See dirty movies. Buy dirty magazines. Protest my government without fear of imprisonment or death. Drive on decent roads. Send and receive mail through a semi-reliable postal sytem." Hate to tell you this, friend, but ours isn't the only country in the world where all this is possible. And asking someone who has the stones to criticize this country why he doesn't just leave is pretty damned simplistic.

I stand by my original reply to your original post; you may believe that your post was all you later explained it was, but the words of your post said something else altogether. At least to me. It was, in other words, ambiguous as to its intent. Your explanation makes it less ambiguous, but my response is still germaine.

To the guy who wants to pit me in a death match with Ted Nugent--tell me, friend, do you actually believe in The Undertaker? Inquiring minds want to know.

I am T.M. Wright. Who am I writing to?

Dec 20, 1998

The butthole used that word again.

Dec 20, 1998

I believe in the Undertaker! : )

Reanimated

Dec 20, 1998

ROFLMAO!

Nicely done Reanimated!

Dec 20, 1998

TM
The Undertaker is a professional wrestler you fucking dimwit. Trying to intellectualize something that silly....jesus christ you can be a jackass sometimes.

Dec 22, 1998

I am T.M. Wright. Who am I writing to?
Errr....To WHOM am I writing.

Dec 22, 1998

Soon, perhaps within the next 20 years, there will be a United States of Europe. The capital of this glorious empire will be Berlin. Our Gross National Product will be almost double that of the United States of America. We will supersede NATO with a single European army. We will then forge the long awaited Fourth Reich. American interests will be threatened in every corner of the globe. Democracy and egalitarianism will be buried. And it is you, my lovely American scibblers, who will work as our spies and secret agents. Indeed, you are already doing so. You are the Sickfest Sturmarbteilung!!!

Dec 22, 1998

Oh, shit. Dillon has relatives in Germany...

Dec 23, 1998

Ja, you are absolutely right.
And I am also being absolutely right, which in politics is the only correct way to be!
My name is Obergruppenfuehrer Claus Ernst von Junger-Dillon. I belong to the Bavarian branch of the Dillons. We have been lurking here for decades in the region separating Munchen from Saltzburg, in our little mountain chalets. We have clockwork generators to power our computers, which were tested on Trade Unionists and Jehovah's Witnesses before being unveiled last spring.

Our Schadenfraude has lately been prompting our Weltansauung into action! Our Zeitgeist, Pumpernickel and Fleidermaus will also soon be ready! The Von Dillons are stirring! Beware! Beware!

To all enemies of the Dillons I am having only this to say:
"Ein Blodmann! Ein Veruccter!"

Dec 23, 1998

Okay, asshole,

I KNOW who the hell The Undertaker is, and I was not "intellectualizing" him, though perhaps your definition of "intellectualize" is a tad different from mine. I was merely trying to point out that anyone who actually lends any credence whatsoever to professional wrestling--even the kind of credence you brought to it in your idiotic post--has got to have an I.Q. somewhere near his hat size. Does that fit you, friend?

Now go and have a Merry Goddamned Christmas, and I hope you choke on your fucking Christmas turkey.

T.M.

Dec 23, 1998

Does my hat fit me? I'm not sure what that has to do with anything....

Dec 23, 1998

I agree with T.M. He isn't afraid to sign his name. To whom is he writing? Sign your fucking name you pussy, and have a merry christmas! Peter S.

Dec 24, 1998

Signing your name on an iternet message board is like using using bubble gum for a condom....You've got something down there but what the hell good is it doing?

Anonymity has a place on these board whether any one likes it or not. Considering how many bullshit conversations go on around here, names are like spelling and mechanics....A pleastant and helpful addition when used properly....But really non-essential for basic communication.

Anyone could be posting messages on here. That guy above really could be Ted Nugent's brother, how the hell would we know otherwise?
Identification is not needed for banter, bullshitting, bickering, or even for serious discussion if you come right down to it. For on the world wibe web, everyone is as educated, powerful, virile, mighty, and indestructible as their imaginations allow them to be.
Sincerely,
The Guy Who Injected the Fatty Tissue Into Sherryl Crowe's Lips.

Dec 24, 1998

'For on the world wibe web, everyone is as educated, powerful, virile, mighty, and indestructible as their imaginations allow them to be.' This is true no matter what the medium. But if somebody truly believes they're all of these things, then they would want people to know who they are. It's people who have no confidence in what they're saying who hide behind fake names. Or people who are afraid what they say will come back on them in some manner. In other words, fools and cowards. Dillon

Dec 24, 1998

Dillon you're wrong again.
No matter what the medium you say? That's stupid.
The man who posts on an internet message board IS as strong, tough, and bullying as his IMAGINATION allows him to be. Take that same man and put him in a small room with a group of his peers, in a roundtable discussion and see how strong, tough, and bullying he is. You know as well as I do that his IMAGINATION stops being the key element of discourse when placed in a face-to-face, reality-reality situation. Everything he says, every gesture, every posture, every locking of eyes is tempered by the constant and very real possibility that he will at any moment be punched hard in the mouth.
Now I'm not saying this to sound like a ruffian or a tough guy, I'm simply stating that physical proximity and physical intimidation are very much a part of real-life communication. Some people like to intellectualize and place themselves above such "base" and "simple" aspects of our nature but that's just posturing, and I think we all recognize it when we see it.
I'll agree with you that the no-names around these boards are very often cowards and fools, but there's no denying that we communicate differently through this medium. Do you think that the people who've blasted you time and again would've used such insulting language had you been standing in front of them, fists clenched, brow sweaty, and respiration labored?
Maybe they would've....But I'd be willing to bet the conversations would've remained much more civil if they'd taken place face to face.
No?
The Guy Who sold The Piper That Wedge of Cheese That He Cleaned His Rapier With.

Dec 24, 1998

Merry Christmas to All

John Pelan

Dec 24, 1998

Merry Christmas, Everybody!

Yes, even you, Dillon.


Later!

--Geoff

Dec 24, 1998

What you say is true, except that people can and do still imagine themselves to be all the things that you have listed when in such situations as you have described. They simply rationalize their actions or lack there of to fit how they imagine themselves to be. Even if you beat them up, it's only because they were off of their game that particular day. In their minds, there is no other possible explanation. Dillon

Dec 24, 1998

<

Dillon is one who knows. He lives by this creed. Just check out how he "technically" committed plagiarism, but since he never meant to harm anyone, he doesn't consider any harm done. He rationalizes all the troubles he causes, whether it's stolen work or redundant commentary until he chases folks like John Shirley from the boards. He exists on these boards for one reason, to cause everyone else as much bile as he can.

Dec 24, 1998

Not this idiot again!

Dec 24, 1998

We're really getting sick of this thing you have with Dillon, Anon. We've heard it over and again and enough is enough. What Dillon did was wrong. He has admitted this many times, but he wasn't trying to steal anyone's story.

Give us all a break, and stop using these boards to keep your demented relationship with Dillon going.

Ken Star

Dec 24, 1998

Dillon, do us all a favor and ignore him this time! Ok?

Dec 27, 1998

You spelt my name rong! The Reel Ken Starr

Dec 28, 1998

EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD IS A COMPLETE ASSHOLE & DESERVES TO DIE! MARK ALLAN REYNOLDS ... p.s. - I don't really mean the above but I thought I'd take a little heat off of Dillon this holiday season and let everyone rant at me for a while :)

Dec 29, 1998

Nice try Mark, heh heh. I posted my faves of 1998, would greatly appreciate any comments and or a list of your faves...it's on the BOOK REVIEWS Board. Thanks, Paul

Dec 29, 1998

Well...it WAS there earlier. DAMN! Paul

Dec 30, 1998

Iiiiiittttttttsssss baaaaaacckk!! Paul Check it out and let me know your faves.

Jan 1, 1999

I'm the first one here this year! WOO-HOO!


Later!

--Geoff

Jan 2, 1999

And I'm the second one here! Yaaayyyy! Hey all, I'm putting together a horrornet chat room and reading at WHC99. If you'd be interested in this little party, please email me at ragekeene@hotmail.com and let me know. Brian Keene

Jan 2, 1999

Brian:

I'm there!

John Pelan (Waiting for the "What an Idiot" Guy)

Jan 2, 1999

Brian, We'll see you there.

Pic & Darkiss

Jan 2, 1999

Well, well, well. Do I detect the pitter-patter of the tiny feet of an intellectual pygmy? Is this really the best that you can do little man? Tossing about obscenities anonymously? I must admit to being a bit disappointed; I'd given you a bit of credit insofar as I thought you might be at least bringing a knife to a gunfight in the proverbial batttle of wits; but if these last posts are any indication, you came armed with only a twig.

I don't know what I've done to earn your ire, but I'll thank you to leave my friends out of your invective. So far, you've proven only that you're a cowardly troll that lacks the stones to use your real name. Based on the evidence of your postings, I can only deduce that you're probably a maladjusted little jack-off that gets a thrill from starting arguments on message boards. Why don't you tell us who you are and how you come to some of your fanciful conclusions?

John Pelan (Slapping Trolls since 1995)

Jan 2, 1999

Perhaps John, if we examine what he wrote, it will give us a vital clue as to his character...Let's take the first part: "Hey John Pellan."...His mis-spelling of your name proves that he has the grammatical ingenuity of a Bavarian Tree Flea...Part Two: "You fuck stupid cunt here in the cellar"...Well, there seems to be something missing from this sentence...Perhaps he is a prehistoric man and always talks like that...Or perhaps he is jealous...He obviously thinks that you are getting laid here in the cellar, while he must resort to jacking his teenage heart out to dirty pictures of Gillian Anderson and The Spice Girls...Part Three: "Laymon is a dick"...He obviously refers to Fred Laymon, an all night 7-11 clerk in Des Moines who is also the little bastards missing father...Part Four: "What an idiot"...I think that pretty much sums it up...Now why don't you leave John alone and attack me for a little while you acne ridden excuse for a sperm stain!...Brian Keene (who is not afraid to sign his name, a fault many of his critics point out)

Jan 2, 1999

Nice try, Pelan. At least, considering the source.

Good to see you in The Cellar where you belong.

What an idiot!

Imme Thatswho

Jan 2, 1999

Imme Thatswho:

My, your mum & dad must be awfully proud to have a savant such as yourself swinging through the branches of the family tree! Your witticisms are a source of inspiration to the mentally-impaired everywhere! Just think, soon (with continued therapy) you may be able to write coherent sentences! It's a wonderful age that we live in when one of your mental deficiencies can actually be trained to use a computer! What's next, eating with utensils?

You did neglect to mention what brought you to this state, was it a natal defect, or an over-indulgence in toad-licking? Please enlighten us!

John

Jan 3, 1999

You've used these same insults before, Pelan.

Besides, in as much as you don't address anything I've said or done, it's all quite pointless. It amounts to nothing more than a childish tantrum.

What an idiot!

Jan 3, 1999

Anything you've said or done? What the Hell have you done besides anonymously post the same three words across a number of boards? Only childish tantrums I've seen are yours. What's your problem with John? Did he reject a story of yours or something?


Later!

--Geoff

Jan 3, 1999

Look everyone!...The "What an idiot" guy got mommy and daddy to buy him a dictionary!...Now he can spell correctly...Shame they didn't get him a brain while they were at it...Brian Keene (who signs his name to everything, even though that's exactly how he winded up doing four years in the Navy)

Jan 4, 1999

A tantrum? Not hardly. Used the same insults before? Well of course, an anonymous pest spewing invective hardly merits more than a couple of the old standbys. Since Mr Whatanidiot doesn't have the cajones to say who he is or what his quarrel with me is, I'll have to assume that he's merely trying to get cheap heat. Unless he chooses to reveal his identity or explain his motivation a bit more specifically, I'm just going to ignore him. It seems that this "what an idiot" bit is just a form of trolling.

John

Jan 4, 1999

I will be thanking you not to be insulting the Bavarian tree-flea. This is being the flea with the highest jump within the radius of a pickelhaube. None of your Yankee fleas can jump to the extreme height of our glorious wunderflea, which is being more than 2 metres.

The inhabitant of this unter-room who calls out, often and exultantly, with the anguished tone of a medical experimented Trade Unionist, "What is being the idiot!", evidently learned his English in der Statliche Cathaus in Desau, where I am also achieving my education. He has the monkey grossness in his life, and also a psychology of weasels, both of which can be extracted and used to repair Oberusul UL engines on Fokker triplanes. I am looking forward to conducting a drill into his head for that purpose.

What a dumpkof!

Claus Ernst von Junger-Dillon

Jan 4, 1999

HA!


Later!

--Geoff

Jan 4, 1999

John Pellan- You are a stupid head. If I wasn't so biussy wright now I would be angry. Richard Laymon can't right, so go kill yourself. You dick head. Why do you even like him anyway?????????///!!!!!!!???!!!?!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!??!????/////^&&*()*^$%&*

Jan 4, 1999

Ninja of the Dark:

I'm rendered nearly speechless by your last posts... Just one question: Do you turn on the computer all by yourself?

John

Jan 4, 1999

Sean: The only fat, smelly person I know is your mother and the only reason she smells that way is because she doesn't wash after getting it on with you and "What an idiot"! Fuck, everybody may complain about Dillon, but at least he has something intelligent to say, unlike you two fucking pussies. Peter S.

Jan 4, 1999

Claus, I wholeheartedly apologize for insulting your Bavarian Tree Flea... It is obvious that the tiny creature has much more brain power than the What An Idiot guy...I will be making a hefty donation to your revolution to make up for the slander against your flea...Brian Keene

Jan 4, 1999

P.S...What An Idiot, you still have not answered Geoffs question...What IS your beef with John?...If you can't answer that straightforwardly and your only purpose is to come here and spew insults (and poor ones at that), then may I suggest you do something more constructive like giving yourself a papercut on the eyeball or perhaps jumping off a bridge...Sean, maybe you could join him, you little turd...Brian Keene again

Jan 6, 1999

Shut up, maggot.

Sgt. "D."

Jan 7, 1999

Hi all. I've just had a storming idea. Doesn't happen very often -- but I think this one's a KILLER!

First off the MASTERS OF TERROR 'HOUSE OF HORROR FICTION' is now closed for submissions. I will post a note on the relevant page and write to all those who have sent in stories recently, but I got a bit fed up with adding stories here and there and taking stories off line after a time. It was all getting to be a bit of a mish-mash with no real purpose. Those authors who have stories posted at THE HOUSE OF HORROR FICTION will have their contributions remain on-line for at least three more months.

Okay here is the idea I came up with while I was archiving message board information. (For those interested archiving the message boards at the site is akin with 'cleaning out the toilets' in job satisfaction terms).

MASTERS OF TERROR will begin to publish FREE ON-LINE ANTHOLOGIES from later this year. Yep, rather than accepting stories, left, right and centre and adding them on at irregular intervals I have decided that this unique idea will become the standard. The intention is to publish one or two anthologies per year on-line at MASTERS OF TERROR. Each anthology will have either a theme or not depending on how the mood takes me.

The first MASTERS OF TERROR anthology is provisionally titled "HOUSES AT THE BORDERLAND". I am open to submissions from this moment. Here are the guidelines:

"HOUSES AT THE BORDERLAND" intends to be the first in a new series of FREE ON-LINE anthologies to be published at MASTERS OF TERROR (http://members.aol.com/andyfair/horrorfiction.html). The title of this anthology is indeed a tribute to the William Hope Hodgson novel THE HOUSE ON THE BORDERLAND. I am looking for stories or novellas of *any length* which are either original or have never appeared on-line before. The fiction must be leaning towards the decidedly weird or cosmic, and you can if you so wish send stories which are a direct tribute to Hodgson's novel. In other words no vampires or werewolves but lots of 'swine things', shadows at the window, oppressive 'house' stories and alien lanscapes. Anything which would befit the title would also be considered . For example any story which encounters a 'borderland' of some kind, be it in mind, body, spirit or whatever.

submissions accepted by e-mail to : andyfair@aol.com. Submissions may also be sent on disk by post to the editor.

At present there is no payment for stories submitted. However, Masters Of Terror has recently undertaken a few commercial activities and a portion of revenue may be used to pay authors at a later date. Also should any advertising space be sold on the anthology pages, the editor will consider carefully the remuneration of contributing authors and artists.

Andy Fairclough.

Jan 7, 1999

Just ignore it...have u noticed that a certain other has not been around lately...was their a suicide in Ariz. recently...I hope?? Just kidding...kinda. Paul

Jan 8, 1999

It's a pity that this message board is being wasted by offensive people. Take heart, John Pelan, there's a lot of people who admire the work you do. Please do more of it, and don't waste your time answering mindless, childish insults that are spoken by juvenile wankers that seem to have infected this board. All the best to you.

Mike Chamberlain

Jan 8, 1999

It's a pity that this message board is being wasted by offensive people. Take heart, John Pelan, there's a lot of people who admire the work you do. Please do more of it, and don't waste your time answering mindless, childish insults that are spoken by juvenile wankers that seem to have infected this board. All the best to you.

Mike Chamberlain

Jan 8, 1999

Sorry I duplicated!

Mike C

Jan 8, 1999

In the interest of starting a more positive thread... As we enter 1999, there is a resurgence of interest in horror in Hollywood; however, this is a mixed blessing as the Hollywood perception of "horror" is now based on SCREAM and IKWYDLS...So, do y'all think that this will help the market for written horror, or will it lead to publishers wanting tripe along the lines of the aforementioned films?

John Pelan

Mike, Peter, & all: Thanks!

Jan 8, 1999

It depends, John, on whether people watch these films and think 'I could do better than that' or whether they adopt the attitude of 'if this is all it takes to make money, I'll write tripe'. It's always difficult. There was an article in issue #2 of Sackcloth & Ashes that said THE EXORCIST (book) took 15 years to write. Obviously, Blatty wasn't writing it nonstop, but it certainly is a wonderfully written book, even if you ignore the originality of the horror contained within it. The film is a close adaptation of the book (which, incidentally, ran over budget because of numerous reasons). The 25th anniversary re-release over here in the UK went down a treat, leading to the video (that is still banned in the UK) to be released later this year. Just shows that if you want quick bucks, you can release tripe. If you want longer lasting and more powerful works, it takes a bit longer. As ever, it depends on what Joe Public want.

Mike C

Jan 8, 1999

Hmmm. I haven't seen SCREAM but do confess to honestly enjoying IKWYDLS in a 'brainless fun horror movie' kind of way. I don't know if there ever has been a parallel bewteen horror movie fashions and the written form (apart from the obvious tie-ins). For example when Halloween and Alien came out the biggest and best horror books were Ghost Story, The Stand etc. Likewise when Nightmare On Elm Street and it's ilk were popular, the popular horror novelists of the time didn't seem to jump on the bandwagon.

If anything perhaps there is a need for a best selling highly commercial horror novel. I tend to think that any interest in horror in whatever form is better than none at all. Maybe just maybe, a few of the people who watch these movies will buy a horror novel and like what they read.

By the way, it's good to come in to the cellar and not find it as stinky as usual.

Andy F.

Jan 8, 1999

Andy: That's coz all the mouthy buggers are not out of bed yet!

Mike C

Jan 8, 1999

Tough question John....I don't think that Hollywood is nearly as gung-ho for the teen-cleavage-horror film as they were say a year ago. Honestly, I think Scream II was so bad that it did more damage to that particular sub-genre of horror than the original did FOR it.
Interscope films just dished out a cool million for the rights to David Ambrose's SUPERSTITION, a wonderful supernatural novel about ghosts. Next week, In Dreams will start showing at theaters, the filmed version of Bari Wood's novel about Clairvoyance (sp?), and sometime between the two we'll see Renny Harlin's bio-engineered killer sharks in Deep Blue Ocean (or something like that) and a remake of Shirley Jackson's classic novel THE HAUNTING OF HILLHOUSE starring the already eerie Lili Taylor.
There are others in the mix too, that definitely fall under the heading of "horror" but go above and beyond (or below and just short of, depending upon your opinion)the Beverly Hills 90210 Horror we've been receiving lately. I think that there will be a lot of diversity out there, and hopefully some folks will pick something up out of these films that they really like, and they'll search for something similar in the written form. That may be wishful thinking, but I guess we'll just have to see. Any way you break it down though, diversity in horror film can only be a good thing.
My opinions,
Matt Taylor

Jan 8, 1999

Hi, John Pelan I just wanted to say that the What An Idiot Guy should be banned off this board, and like Mike .C I think that people like him are wasting the use of a potentialy good board. I think that you have almost everyones support, so don't keep retaliating to his childish comments. Its just the reaction he craves. Keep up the good work, David Williams.

Jan 8, 1999

Fine. Say the word and I'll go and not bother this board again. David Williams.

Jan 8, 1999

David--stay. That other schmuck obviously ain't going to leave, no reason for you to.

John--for the movies like LAUGH er... SCREAM, rather, and IKWYDLS, I think, (yes, it sometimes happens) that they are an annoyance at best. I can't understand ANYONE taking them as serious films, much less serious Horror films, but people do. This is not a good thing because of their overwhelming popularity for their target audiences. Sick world. Bad movies do well, parodies are taken seriously, and yes, I see it coming, novels written without a character suited for the Party of Five chick are going to have a hard time in the marketplace. Tripe will probably reign over integrity, as much as I hate to think it. I think it is another mess the Small Presses are going to have to bail the genre out of.


Later!

--Geoff

Jan 8, 1999

John: My personal feelings on the above mentioned topics are such...I think those movies and the othe recent ones such as H20, The Faculty, and Virus will actually help the written horror market in the end...True, they may not be all "GREAT" horror films, but neither are half the novels that get published...Anything that increases the interest and demand for the genre can't be that bad...The remake of Psycho was an exercise in futility but I know of at least one teenage kid who went out and read the Bloch book afterword...I myself was introduced to the genre not through reading, but through movies like Jaws and Phantasm...These lead to a love of the genre and eventually to a lot of great books...At this point, still in the market slump, I say that ANYTHING put out is a move in a positive direction... What An Idiot/Ninja of the Dark/Whatever the hell you are: I wonder if you steal your mothers dirty underwear from the clothes hamper and jerk off in it. You are scum and slime and nothing more than a cumstain on your unknown fathers jock strap...Will you be attending WHC99 because if so I would LOVE to meet with you and kick your ass in a death match...We could donate the proceeds to any charity you wish...Or, I'd love to "Debate" (make an ass out of) you on my morning show...Would you be interested in calling in or are you to chickenshit to rant out loud?...The gauntlet has been thrown you little weasel...Let's see if your man enough to pick it up...Brian Keene (Also known as Peter S.)

Jan 8, 1999

If you dont take Scream as a serious horror movie what should be the critera for serious horror? (understand i'm not speaking of the content, but the fact that it was not a "joke"! movie) I think it is wonderful we have new "scream queens" just as we had in Jamie Lee Curtis. In fact Campbell is probably more talented than Curtis hands down! (at least she doesn't have to show her tits to get your attention -- Jennifer Love Hewitt!!) I really dont understand. Was Jaws a serious movie? Exorcist? Omen? Because surly Craven coached those movies just as well as the others did their films

In my opinion the only movie so far that FUCKIN DROVE ME UP THE FUCKIN WALL because of these TV TEENERS was Urban Legend...That could have been an amazing film if the kids in it didn't make constant references...over and over and over and over and over to their actual tv roles. But the others dont do that. They are teens, like the campers of the past, doin a GOOD ol' horror movie. Anyhow..i've lost my thoughts...Scream GOOD! anal fans always bitching about teens in horror movies BAD

Andy, just like to say that i dont think you should have an advertisement above the MOT enterance...i think the first thing people see when they come to this site is MASTERS OF TERROR!.. just my opinion

Reanimated

Jan 8, 1999

Reanimated: You make some good points about having a new breed of Scream Queens and I will have to commit blasphemy and say that I agree with you on Neve Campbell...However, as far as the ad on MoT goes...I say we leave that up to Andy...This is his puppy after all and if it makes him some money, we should applaud that...As long as we have a playground here and a forum to banter about various topics, I don't care what Andy does with the advertising...Brian Keene

Jan 9, 1999

Actually SCREAM was never intended to be taken as a "serious" attempt at horror. It's original title was in fact "SCARY MOVIE" and it was supposed to be Wes Craven's little jab at the industry. Then it got popular, wildly popular beyond anyone's expectations and suddenly you've got people declaring it the "next wave in horror."
It's shocking and SILLY to think that anyone would take SCREAM and IKNOW as realistic attempts at frightening cinema and I'm always surprised when I see people defending them as such. THIS IS NOT TO SAY THAT THESE FILMS ARE WITHOUT A PLACE IN OUR FILM-GOING DIETS. I get a kick out of watching these films because they're goofy, flashy, and entertaining. I don't go expecting to be scared, disturbed, or even made to feel uneasy. NO, I go to see silly gore, mindless violence, and cleavage.
Anyone gotta problem with that?

JAWS (Spielberg's original), THE EXCORCIST, and THE OMEN each did something in a way it hadn't been done before, and we took these films home with us....Let 'em roll around in our psyche for a decade or so, and had them permanently affect us. These are serious films that packed the power to seriously disturb. SCREAM (Scram) IKNOW, DISTURBING BEHAVIOR, URBAN LEGEND, etc. etc. do nothing of the sort, and should never be mistaken as the same "type" of film.

I also wanted to voice my agreement with Brian's statement that nearly half of the horror novels being published today are every bit as bad as the movies we've been discussing. Is one a product of the other? I don't think so. I haven't seen the teen scream phenom reflected in publishing yet, neither small press nor mainstream. And please don't assume that just because the small press is given more freedom to publish a wider range of materials that this is by any means is a reflection of quality. The small presses produce a helluva lot of crap, just like the mainstream. I'm a HUGE supporter of small press publishing, but I also realize that an editor can make mistakes....BIG mistakes....Regardless of his/her income and distrubtion.
Just some thoughts,
Matt

Jan 9, 1999

Matt,

How is it SILLY to take Scream and I Know as realastic attempts at frightening "cinima"? <- people always say cinima when they want to go highbrow. You weren't frightened ONE BIT in Scream? You didn't jump once from I Know? Not once when the killer was in the room and victim didn't know he was there, did that make your skin crawl (even if we have seen it a million times before?) You can tell me it didn't but IT DID. If it didn't Matt you wouldn't have bother to go to these movies. I'm not saying that these films actually frightened you to the point that you wet your pants for real, but they THRILLED YOU! GAVE YOU A GOOD HEALTHY, SAFE, SCARE!>

You go to see gore, mindless violence and cleavage. That's nice. But there is more to a film like Scream (and there could have been for Urban Legend..a huge disappointment for me). I think you folks out here that claim to be horror fans have a hard time accepting that for some reason. What is it with you guys and needing David Cronenburg to direct all your moives in order for them to have some kind of respectablity?

Maybe Scream wont permanently affect those of us that have ALREADY been fucked up by Jaws and Exorcist (and the list can go on and on) but the younger generation WILL REMEMBER SCREAM IN FIFTEEN YEARS!! I guarantee you!! Scream is the one movie out of this lot that will hang on, it will be there in peoples hearts as one of the best horror movies of their growing up! We have had our movies!!! We had Halloween, Friday the Thirteenth, Nightmare on Elm Street's...what is the problem with accepting that and moving on to enjoy what is being brought out for the younger groups today. Cuz face facts folks. They dont make these horror movies for most of us older guys (christ! i'm only 25!). Its for the seventeen and eighteen year olds and then the younger kids once it reaches video!

My last point has to do with the disturbing power of a film like Scream as compared to the other films (Jaws etc..) I personally thought there were disturbing scenes in Scream. The opening scene. Drew was dying stabed on the lawn trying reach her parents as they went up the walkway...the phone in her hand...moaning in pain...mother picks up the phone hears her daughters death...the killer gets her! Ok, you watch that film and all you get is "oh ya blood!" then you're hopeless. That scene is MEANT to disturb and it worked on me and it worked on millions of others! (at least i assume it did due to its tremendous success) Scream was just as disturbing as Jaws ever was. I dont want to get into it but the were plenty of disturbing psychological elements to Scream. (dont get me wrong...Jaws is my all time favorite movie..hands down. I'm just the defender of all horror...most of the time)

Reanimted

Jan 9, 1999

To the what an idiot guy. I will not engage in any arguments with you and will give you no further response to any insulting message. Use this board for worthwhile conversation, use the hand puppet that tells you to do things that you can't control to bounce new and exciting insults off of. David Williams.

Jan 9, 1999

I did not write the last post with the insult to John Pelan. Please ignore any further messages like that as they are not from me. I have no interest in mailing abusive letters. The GENUINE David.

Jan 9, 1999

Hi all:

Reanimated: You're quite right in that SCREAM had some genuinely unsettling moments; my objection to the film is more due to the overall tongue-in-cheek-my-aren't-I-clever approach that Williamson takes in all of his work. Hollywood tends to imitate success, and I don't think that the genre is well served in the long term by parody-type films like SCREAM. What the genre really needs now is a big budget horror film that plays it straight and SCARES us! Something of that nature could revitalize the film genre and by extension help out the publishing industry. A film adaptation of any of a number of novels by Laymon, Ketchum, or pre-1986 James Herbert could accomplish this.

On the publishing front, the success or failure of 999 will tell us a lot about where the market for short fiction is heading...

Cheers,

John

Jan 9, 1999

Hi. John I really agree with you about wanting to see a decent horror movie with a big budget actual come out on top. All the time they are producing movies that have great ideas, but really end up just plain sucking. It also really sucks because it means that due to copyright enfringment other people who could have used the same ideas in a more productive way are banned from doing so. Wishmaster is a great example. It had a pretty big budget, it had all the gore effects, the story was OK, and the lead monster was...reasonable, and they even had Robert Englund and Kane Hodder, aka Freddy and Jason-yet the movie really lacked substance. The thing that really bugs me though is that with all the great books out there that would make fucking great films these shit films are still being churned out by the dozen. With the exception of Grosse Pointe Blank I don't think I've seen a really good movie since 95's Resevoir Dogs. Once again I'd like to clarify that I did not write the last insulting letter to John Pelan. I was victim to What An Idiot, or Ivan ... Whatever's witty attempt to impersonate me, much as I assume you were. Thanks David Williams.

 Jan 10, 1999

John (and to the rest)

I wish to make it clear that i agree with your points John and most of the others that post at MOT. I agree with you on all the points you made, in a sence. I see where you're coming from and think your points are valid. As are most peoples ideas here.

On the other hand i think that Scream on its own isn't going to hurt anything. It's the Urban Legends that end up hurting the genre. It is with that point that HOLLYWOOD somehow misunderstands the cause of a film like Scream's success with its audience. THEY see the success coming from the TEEN cast. WE (or i do anyway) see the success of Scream as being from it's wonderful, original, funny, and down right scariness (sp?)!! I think we only get hurt when Hollywood mistakes the reasons for success.

I think it is also important to remember that films arn't made for authors. There are script writers out there that write scripts for a living. I dont understand it when people get mad that Kevin Williamson is so popular right now and shit on him because they want to see Laymon and Ketchum books filmed. Dont get me wrong. I WOULD LOVE THAT!! I think they are stupid for not adapting those works. But at the same time i dont think they have to. I think authors should first and formost worry about their books. That is their job. Their job isn't to write a book and get it made into a movie. It would be wonderful, no doubt, but it shouldn't be the main purpose of their careers. (even though i keep that as a dream of mine ; ) ). Williamson is doing his own thing right now. You dont see him coming into book stores (at least i haven't heard of it!) complaining about the lack of this or the over abundace of that and how this author sucks and there should be more of that. He's making a career for himself. I think we all just wish there were more of him out there. Ofcourse with different styles but the same HORROR ENTHUSIASM!

Scream was original. No other movie has ever done what they did in that movie. I applaud them for that. It's the Urban Legends that fuck us.

Oh well. I still agree with you John. I would really love to see some Laymon on the big screen.

Reanimated

Jan 10, 1999

Reanimated,
You're right, we agree on about 90% of this discussion. SCREAM won't hurt a thing, it was a decent, fun movie. I disagree though about its origninality....That stuff I wrote about this film being written as a parody isn't bullshit that I made up, go find some of the pre-release interviews with Craven. This was supposed to be a tounge-in-cheek spoof, making FUN of the genre, and people took it seriously. The phone-thing during Barrymore's death? Simply a spin on the cheezy Carol Kane "Have you checked the children" movie. Two killers? Nothing new. Rose McGowan girl dying in a GARAGE DOOR? David Arquette's stumbling, bumbling Dewey? Come ON MAN, this is thrilling comedy, not horror.
Look, I'm the least "high-brow" horror movie fan you're gonna find. THE HILLS HAVE EYES is probably my favorite horror movie of all time, and there wasn't anything especially trend-setting or "cinematic" in it.
I certainly don't think a movie has to have an "artistic" director to be disturbing....But a slasher film, even done well, can still only be a slasher film. Me, I'm tired of watching oversexed teenagers die grisly deaths....Yeah, I'd like to see something more creative than that.
On the other hand....I love going to the movies and being thrilled, so on that point yeah, you're right. I enjoy the experience moreso than the film itself. Regardless, SCREAM was never meant to be taken seriously and if you question that, I'll post you some links to Wes Craven's pre-release interviews in which he talks about making this "jab" at the industry.
And I love JAWS too, I can't help but watch the damn thing everytime TBS shows it.....Which is about once a week!
Later dude
Matt

Jan 10, 1999

Matt

I dont disagree withyou one bit on whether or not Scream was a parody or spoofy in a kind of way. I'm a huge movie fan and i've been collecting Fango for over a decade. I read all that about the movie been a dig at the industry or horror. How the critics thought it was wrong for Craven to make jabs at an industry that had essentially made him what he is today. But what i think is that it was still a horror movie! (or slasher if you prefer...i like the term "slasher movie"..appeals to my hate of people that always say, "its not a horror movie" like they did with Seven...Seven was many things but above the rest it was a horror movie) Matt you miss it's originality because you are only seeing what it is actually doing!! It's original that he used the WHEN A STRANGER CALLS scene...why? because the killer new he was doing it! He knew what movie it came from! That was the whole originality to it (you probably want to kick my ass now...i realize you probably know this). Include here the rest of the original use of other horror gimicks. He was making fun of it. No doubt. But he was making fun of it with all seriousness. Dont for one second think that some executive said "hey Craven...go make a joke movie. Here's a couple mill. Go fuck around!" No way. It was a serious slasher movie based around old horror/slasher movies poking fun as it and even themselves. I loved that!

Anyway, you guys know where i stand. I'll sit here and defend Scream till my brain is mush (keep the wise cracks to yourselves!).

Seven. The greatest fucking movie to hit the theaters? Must be in your top ten or you aint a horror fan! Anyone got any feelings on 8mm? Looks good to me! Andrew Kevin Walker always delivers the goods!

Reanimated

Jan 10, 1999

RE--
Nah, I don't wanna kick your ass....Believe it or not man, I respect the hell outta the way you stick with your opinions, and I've said it before, NO ONE can question your dedication as a fan. SCREAM was a great slasher flick.(I like the term too)I guess I'm just not the slasher-film fan that I used to be. EVENT HORIZON, IN THE MOUTH OF MADNESS, LORD OF ILLUSIONS....Those are the horror movies from the 97-98 horror "burst" that hit the mark for me. MIMIC too, and I enjoyed RELIC despite its flaws.
As far as 8mm....Hell yeah I can't wait!
Later man,
Matt

Jan 10, 1999

Matt

During the Christmas break i rented Lord of Illusions because my fiance (soon to be wife) hadn't seen it. When i had originally seen it in the theaters i liked it but i didn't think it was all that great. Well, i dont know\ who's long green vegtable i had up my ass that day but watching Lord this time BLEW ME AWAY! It's a super movie. I real true to heart HORROR movie. I agree with you there 100%

Mouth of Madness. Supurb! Forsure near the top of my favorite movies of the decade!

Reanimated

Jan 10, 1999

IN THE MOUTH OF MADNESS was so fucking eerie...those bike riders gave me nightmares for weeks!! For my 2 cents...SCREAM was good as was SCREAM 2. IKWYDLS 1 & 2 were also good. Not great stuff but rarely is their a horror movie that is great. EVENT HORIZON blew dog dick, but I recently dubbed DARK CITY and have heard good things about it. LOI was good stuff...a bit too much for Clive, the director, to handle IMHO Anyways, that's what I got. CYA Paul

Jan 10, 1999

Oh I forgot. H@O was a piece of shit. Why?? It's now around 20 years since the original and those scenes that have Meyers real close to getting Curtis in a car and then...poof. the car starts and she gets away was so moutherfucking TIRED!! It's been done 1 million times before...and they wonder why horror movies aren't taking seriously!! That was a joke!! The ending was cool...but I can figure out a way to continue the series... Paul

Jan 10, 1999

H@0 should've been H20, sorry. Paul

Jan 11, 1999

Perhaps the ad at the top of the front page turned out a bit larger than I expected! A smaller version will appear tomorrow

However for Rean et al, here are the statistics

The basic operating cost of this site is around £400 that's $650 per year. This is for ISP cost and telephone calls only. Current advertising sold covers 5% of this.

On top of this I put in at least 100 hours per month in research and maintenance to the site - cost free. In 1999, I would like to move the site to a .com address which will increase the running costs to about £700 or $1100 per year.

I also want to start paying authors at some point for their stories (especially those who are going to tribute to the anthology(ies)). Getting anywhere near to breaking even would be a start!

So to correct the earlier comment - I am a long way from making money out of this site!

AF.

Jan 11, 1999

I reckon the advert looks cool, Andy!!!

Andrew Busby - S&A

Jan 11, 1999

I didn't mean for my earlier comment to be taken quite so seriously. I just see that front pages as the equal to, say, a store front. People dont come here to buy books (at least i dont) but simply to interact with the authors and fans. I just thought that MOT is something that Andy has obviousy laboured over and worked terribly hard at and a MOT logo should be the first thing people see when they come here. Just my opinion.

Speaking of cost. Here in Canada, case some of you dont know, reading is something only rich people can afford. Yup that is right, unless ofcouse that is all you do. In other words if you want to go out on a friday too bad. That new book is gonna cost you a sweet penny. New John Grisham paperback just out. $11.99. Twelve FUCKIN dollars. Let me say it again only louder TWELVE FUCKING FUCKING DOLLARS!! New Koontz Hardback? $38.00. Thirty Eight FUCKING dollars. Listen. I dont mind increases. But Grishams last paperback was $10.99. What, what what what could possibly have made it necessary to add one full fucking buck to the price of the book????????? Did costs REALLY go up that much????? Do they really need 50 million more dollars in profit???? Surly to god just increasing the price by a measly 15 cents would have satified those fucking bastards for another year.

You know i'm sitting on the bus trying to read the new Koontz book ( a book i swore i wouldn't purchase hardback cuz his writing of late is awful) and it's just not working for me. Koontz, it strikes me, is just a FUCKING FUCK RICH BITCH WHO CANT ENTERTAIN HIS GRANDKIDS WITH HIS FUCKING STUPID STORIES!!!!!! ok, i'm mad. he can write. but my point is that I CANT ENJOY THE BOOK BECAUSE IT COST ME SO MUCH. There is a psychological term for this which is not coming to me but i'll return later and explain.

Soon paperbacks will cost fifteen bucks, then twenty. Hardbacks? One hundred.

Soon the only people reading books in Canada will be the rich and they will be the only ones with an education because they are the only ones that can afford the books. I wouldn't mind paying the extra cash if the author was there so i could kick him in the nuts! fuck signing my books. Just spreadum!!! (ofcourse i would want their agents there too, and the book company reps...etc...)

Reanimated

Jan 11, 1999

ok, i just woke up from my nap and i feel bad. koontz doesn't deserve be to called a "fucking fuck rich bitch". not only is it a retarded insult but it doesn't really make much sence. lets just call him a bitch! NO! i'm kiddin ; )

Reanimated

Jan 11, 1999

Hey there Reanimated, if those books are too expensive for you, simply do not buy them. However, you don't have to be rich to enjoy hardback books. Now, this may sound strange but I do not buy paperbacks. A nice trade paperback, probably, but a regular paperback no. It is a bit querky but that's me and I'm not rich. I rather have a nice bookself of hardback books I can enjoy now and ten years from now. Maybe even have a few collector's items I can sell or trade for more dough than I paid. Yes, I am a collector geek and have been since I was a child. Chad Hensley

Jan 11, 1999

Chad, though i see your point and it is a good one...you completely missed what i had to say as a whole. You dont have to be rich to buy books? Sure, at the momment that may sound like the paranoid rantings of a baby mouthed pansy but you wait!! You come back to me in five years and tell me how many hardbacks you been collecting when their $60 bucks a shot or maybe $100 bucks a shot. How many books you gonna be reading then??? You gonna pay a 100 bucks for a stinking 300 page koontz book? Probably...and that will be all you're doing if you arn't well to do already. Imagine...we (here in Canada...you from Canada Chad? because here in Canada we have the most heavly taxed economy in the world. You dont just pay 12 bucks for the paperback...there are taxes on that.) So by you telling me not to buy the paperbacks you're telling me not to read...or you're telling me to buy the even more expensive hardbacks... i dont get it.

Reanimated

Jan 11, 1999

Hi John Pelan, I just received my latest issue of Cemetery Dance and I was looking forward to your latest collum on collecting modern horror fiction. Unfortuantely it was not in this issue. Hopefully you will be in the next issue, right??? James

Jan 12, 1999

I'd like to point out places like the ABE and bookfinder.com for all those who hate spending wads of cash on new books. You can pick up some great second-hand books for cheap(er) prices. Check it out.

Jan 12, 1999

James:

I too received my copy of CD today and was surprised that the column was absent... Rich Chizmar e-mailed me a note indicating that due to the number of columnists that he has now, columns will run every other month... So I guess my two-year topic will extend for four years!

John

Jan 12, 1999

Maybe there are some import taxation issues I don't know about, I'm admittedly ignorant when it comes to such things....But Reanimated I would suggest buying ALL of your books, both paperback and hardcover, from Barnes & Noble Online.....I never thought I'd say that, but NO ONE else can offer 20-30% off of every new hardcover. Buy your limited editions, novellas, anthos, and chapbooks from a good indie book dealer, he/she will do you right and WILL save you money eventually.
Take advantage of this internet thing amigo!


JOHN -- No column in this month's CD? That's Bullllllllllllllshit. That fucking magazine is getting so focused on publishing "names" that they're forgetting what a lot of turn to that magazine for. Bulllllllllllshit.

A HALF-ASS, MAYBE DECENT SUGGESTION: Maybe you (John Pelan) could hook something up with Andy so that like once a month or so you could post a list of "hidden gems" that collectors can be looking for. I know it's a feature I'd pay a lot of attention to. Nothing that would take you away from your editorial/publishing/writing/General good guy duties, but maybe something that a lot of us would dig.

Just a thought. Later y'all,
Matt Taylor

Jan 12, 1999

It's a great shame that people criticize magazines and anthologies for trying to publish work from so-called "names". If the work is poor, then fair enough - it deserves to be criticized. Surely a story should be judged on its contents and not on the author. Just my opinion.
- John Saul

Jan 12, 1999

And it makes it ten times harder for new writers, who want to succeed, but then notice that if you're too successful you get hammered anyway. That's a very British attitude, and I'm surprised that Americans share it. I always thought that in America, you were allowed to be successful without anyone resenting you for it -- let the cream rise and all that. In Britain, the attitude is that you have to stay in the grey area between success and failure. If you aren't somewhere in the middle then you are despised for having no talent (it's generally assumed over here that only writers without talent remained unpublished or become popular)!

Claus's British Cousin

Jan 12, 1999

Hello. I think that scream when considered is all in all a peice of cunt shit that licks ass. If you look at all the crapy movies out there, this is one of them. Dillon, take your comments, put them in your pipe and shove 'em. John Pelan.

Jan 12, 1999

Hey Reanimated, I live in Seattle-- I've been to Canada a few times. I don't read Koontz, so I won't be buying his books. For the most part, I don't even buy books from chain bookstores, I rather support the small press. I never told you not to buy paperbacks, I just said I don't buy them. Chad Hensley

Jan 12, 1999

The above comments regarding SCREAM were not from me.

John Pelan

Now for our little imposter friend: In a very short while we'll all know who you are and more importantly WHERE you are. If you must know the possible implications of the latter, I suggest that you take a look at the Tanjen board. You're a very funny fellow; but there's lots of folks that can be quite funny as well. I'd just mention that what some people find particularly amusing may not be to your taste...

Jan 12, 1999

I have also been impersonated by this What an Idiot-at least thats who I think he is, originaly anyway. Is it possible to get him thrown off the board for good? David Williams.

Jan 12, 1999

I have also been impersonated by this What an Idiot-at least thats who I think he is, originaly anyway. Is it possible to get him thrown off the board for good? David Williams. PS Sorry if I just duplicated this post.

Jan 12, 1999

I find it difficult to discuss these issues with any amount of seriousness when so many of you folks refuse to post your names. I'm sure that there are plenty of solid arguments for CD's editorial trend of only publishing the same 5 or 6 authors every month, and I'd like to hear them....I'd like to discuss/debate them and actually have an intelligent conversation on it, and similar subjects......But responding to "John Saul" and "Claus' Whatever" is stupid and not worth anyone's time.
MT

Jan 12, 1999

What an idiot-...I'm still waiting for you to call me on the air. Did you lose the phone number or are you just to cowardly to voice your opinion live where people can actually find out who you are?...The gauntlet remains in your court...Brian Keene

Jan 12, 1999

WOW!!!! Did anyone catch the ass whooping that What an idiot caught over at Horrornet? It was well worth it. Thank you Brian for putting that little turd in his place. Hopefully we won't have to hear from him anymore. Gary

Jan 12, 1999

Gary...You are very welcome...I'm still not sure that was What an idiot though...The spelling and grammar were too good...Anyway, Reanimated, are you from Canada and if so, what can you tell me about the Canadian legend of The Wendigo?...Brian Keene

Jan 13, 1999

Just a quick note to clarify that my name IS actually John Saul. I am not THE John Saul (and I never said that I was), so I apologise unreservedly for sharing a name with a famous writer. I was not intending to impersonate the other Mr Saul, but it's so difficult to work out who's really who on this board that in the future I'll sign simply as John S. So, to MT: you can respond to me whnever you can be bothered. I'm not an imposter!
-John S(aul).

Jan 13, 1999

Hi all:

For those of you that were bemoaning the absence of my CD column this issue, II guess it runs every other issue...

Well Matt wanted me to rec some collectible stuff and Reanimated wans some cheap books... I think I can cover all the bases here without using any material that I'd use in my column:

Algernon Blackwood: The best supernatural writer of this century. If you want to read an essay on Blackwood, visit gothic.net; if you just want a great book to read, there's a Dover edition of THE BEST OF for $8.95! Yes, less than the cost of a new John Grisham paperback! For those of us that prefer hardcovers, we're in a quandry, there are three huge omnibuses of Blackwood's fiction readily available at most used book stores: TALES OF THE UNCANNY & SUPERNATURAL, TALES OF THE MYSTERIOUS & MACABRE, and THE BEST SUPERNATURAL STORIES OF. This latter is NOT the same as the Dover edition, and is lacking both "The Wendigo" and "The Willows". Unfortunately, these stories are conspicuous by their absence in all three of these books! So this time the paperback buyer can rejoice!

As long as you're buying the Blackwood, ask the clerk about other Dover paperbacks, there's a COMPLETE GHOST STORIES of E.F.Benson that's the size of the Toronto phone, there's a $8.95 version of LeFanu's IN A GLASS DARKLY, and even a series of $1.00 paperbacks featuring Bierce, LeFanu, Poe, and others. If you've found a bookstore that carries Dover, they probably have "Modern Library" too. Pick up GREAT TALES OF TERROR & THE SUPERNATURAL; it's about $20.00 in hardcover and is over 1000 pages!

Lastly, for the hardcover collectors: Stop by the Ash-Tree Press site and order the forthcoming Frederick Cowles book. Cowles was every bit as good as Benson, Wakefield, or James; and this book collects ALL his supernatural fiction. And if you haven't done so yet, visit www.horrorcollector.com and check out MIDNIGHT HOUSE! Our first book, (THE HOUSE OF THE NIGHTMARE by Edward Lucas White), will be shipping in about two weeks, and we've alraedy pre-sold two-thirds of the edition. If you don't know who Edward Lucas White is, check out his story "Lukundoo" in the aforementioned GREAT TALES OF TERROR...

Cheers,

John Pelan

Jan 14, 1999

John Pelan: Thanks! That's exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for. I'll be ordering the White collection very soon.

John S(aul): Sorry for assuming that you were a joker....But you gotta admit, it's an easy trap to fall into! Anyways, I agree with you 100% that the stories appearing in CD should be judged on their own merit, rather than the name attatched to them. If the 5 or 6 writers that consistently appear in Cemetery Dance are producing the 5 or 6 BEST stories submitted, then so be it. I just don't think that this is the case.
I afraid that a B- or C+ story from a Ketchum or a Gorman means more to the editors of CD than a B+ or A story from a newcomer. I understand WHY, I just don't happen to agree with it. Don't get me wrong, I still love this magazine and recognize it as the premier market in this little niche of the publishing industry.....However, I've seen a slight dropoff in quality over the last year that troubles me. Maybe the expanded publishing schedule will help, and will allow for more diversification in the writers we see appearing in CD. I hope so....Because when I see something GOOD in the magazine that I'm drawn to, like JOHN PELAN'S COLUMN ON COLLECTING getting bumped over to a reduced schedule, it makes me question WHAT it's being replaced with.....Me, I'd rather read John's column than ANOTHER pseudo-psychological "thriller" by Ed Gorman.
'Course that's just me.
Matt Taylor

Jan 14, 1999

It's okay, Matt. You ain't the first and you won't be the last. I once ordered a John Saul paperback from a bookshop, and when I gave my name, the shop assistant asked for my autograph! Suffice it to say she only got her wish because I signed the cheque!

John S.

Jan 14, 1999

Couple of things to throw out here....Seeing as I've got the time:

An additional note to REANIMATED and the rest of you who were discussing the SCREAM phenomena.....I think that one thing we have to keep in mind about the SCREAM, IKNOW, THE FACULTY, DISTURBING BEHAVIOUR, URBAN LEGENDS...film set is that these movies are made with a target audience in mind. I think that once you've grown out of the MTV, 15-22 year-old age bracket, there are going to be things about these movies that no longer affect you the way the directors/producers hope they will.
There's nothing wrong with that either. But adults can't go into these movies LOOKING for the types of things they expect from mature, adult-oriented (Not THAT kind of adult-oriented, hahahaha)cinema. It would be like reading a John Bellairs book and approaching it, holding expectations for it, as if it were a Jack Ketchum novel. Sure, the two things are similar, but their INTENTIONS are totally different.
That's why movies like IN THE MOUTH, LORD OF ILLUSIONS, and EVENT HORIZON work so much more effectively for me. They approach horror (and horror audiences) in a mature, almost respectful fashion, treating FEAR as something that encompasses much, much more than "BOO!" moments and 1,001 variations on disembowling.
I seem to be the only one around here who liked EVENT HORIZON, but no matter what your view, you've got to give the makers of that film an "attaboy" for at least attempting to create horror in a fashion that has never been done on film before. The idea of puncturing space/time and emerging somewhere else....And the mystery of what rests in between is a helluva great concept, and I thought the movie pulled it off well until it became a simple gore flick.
No matter what example you use, there can't be any denying that the SCREAM movies and all their little offspring, are being made for an audience to which I, and many others, no longer belong. I can still enjoy these films, but I can't carry into them the expectations I hold for films aimed at me, and my generation. Just because we don't find them horrifying anymore doesn't make them NOT horror.

AND, an end-note to the PSYCHO remake discussion we had a while back..... Today I saw an interview with Joe Steffano, the screenwriter for the original PSYCHO....In this interview while talking about Anthony Perkins, Steffano said that HE created Norman Bates to fit the personality of Perkins, and that HE wrote the story to incorporate various aspects of Perkins' acting abilities.
Intellectual copyright will never exist, because shitball polesmokers like Steffano are ALWAYS being hired to take the hard work of real writers and fillet it into a screenplay, and then have the audacity to claim the "magic" of the work as their own.
Very sad.

Later y'all, I've run my mouth enough.
Matt

Jan 14, 1999

John Pelan: when you've tracked down the location of your impostor friend, let me know where he is. If he dwells on this side of the Atlantic, I'll have his head ready on a plate if you ever decide to visit... My good friend Billy has already taken an unexpected interest in crockery.

Rhys

Jan 14, 1999

Matt

i'm just dying to go see IN DREAMS! i'm a big jordan fan (not the basketball player! hahhaha! oh lord) and after reading the recent article on this movie in Fangoria i HAVE to see it. Sounds great. And if any of you bastards! (and guys, i mean bastards in that lovin kinda way ; )) knocking Scream for it's teen this and teen that crap arn't postin comments on that movie by Saturday morning i'm gonna be doin a horror fan call...i guess we'll see huh..who are the real fans out there?

i'm just kiddin guys...if you want to go see virus go ahead. But this IN DREAMS is the adult stuff you guys are dying for. By the way, did anyone see THE BUTCHER BOY? if you didn't it is well worth the four fify on video (it's out now!). Great movie. It's based on Patrick Macabe's (sp?) book

Reanimated

Jan 14, 1999

anyone out there with a shovel?

it's gonna be like Stephen King's STORM OF THE CENTURY here pretty soon! Lots a snow. Lots of it. So much that they cancelled classes to all the schools today (and probably tomorrow) and that includes universities. MINE included. : )

We even called in the Army! I dont know folks. If we can't handle a snow storm without help from the Army what are we gonna do when the vampires get here? Shit. And i really wanted to go to class too. he he he he. Nothing like being snowed in (hardly!) with only a fangoria to keep ya company! ok...i just bored ALRIGHT!!! man

Reanimated

Jan 15, 1999

Sorry Matt, got to disagree. My wife and myself watched I KNOW WHAT YOU DID about two months ago and both thoroughly enjoyed it. Our collective ages are 72 and we were jumping all over the place. I *loved* it. I remember and agree with Reanimated's comments from a while ago where he pointed out the plusses that I KNOW had over an old low budget slasher like FRIDAY THE 13TH.

I also disagree that you think that people over 22 go looking for "adult oriented, mature" cinema. I think you do for a while, then you remember how much you used to enjoy the thinks you liked from your teenage years and if you're lucky enough - you go back and enjoy them even more. I do enjoy "mature" cinema and novels but I do still enjoy films like I KNOW and straight ahead horror novels.

Matt, you sound 29 (or whatever) going on 65 saying 'you and many others' are no longer the type of audience to enjoy SCREAM. Why not? Never let go of your childhood idealisms, it's a slippery slope to misery. (Mark Chadbourn's SCISSORMAN may provide further enlightenment!)

And finally Matt - I think the pipe & slippers beckon. (Mind you I have a pipe and I live in my slippers...) I don't mean to be too preachy but you got me hot under the collar this morning. Reading your post was like getting a cold shower!

Andy F.

Jan 15, 1999

Well Andy what can I say? There's no way for me to say this without it sounding insulting so I'm just going to forget decorum for a moment and say what comes to mind. If media written, aimed, produced, and glossed over with the direct intent of entertaining teenagers is the type of thing you enjoy spending your money on, then fine, spend away and enjoy.
If you look back at what my argument was, I admitted that I too enjoy seeing these movies for the blood, violence, and breasts and all their adolescent shortcomings. What I said was, you can't go INTO one of these movies with the SAME EXPECTATIONS THAT YOU HOLD FOR A MOVIE WRITTEN, AIMED, AND PRODUCED FOR ADULTS.
So I'm not really sure what got you hot under the collar....You're not arguing that these films are made for adults, and we both agree that we go to them for the experience as much as the subject matter, so I'm a little confused.
I will say though, that I'm 27, and I work with teenagers EVERY DAY, and I manage to keep ahold of that part of my psyche pretty well. Recognizing and enjoying a film made for grown-ups moreso than a fuck&slash flick is a piss-poor basis for an analysis of my ability to stay in touch with my youth.
But that's okay, you're still a pretty cool dude.
Later, Matt

Jan 15, 1999

Rean

The Butcher's Boy was a sad, tragic movie. (And why is Stephen Rea in every Jordan film?) I enjoyed it. Haven't read the novel by McCabe, but I know it made The Stoker Ballot one year. How's the shoveling going? I just spent and hour and a half out there. Christ! It's Canada! You'd think we'd be used to all this white stuff. The only good thing about it is it gave me a story idea. Cheers!

Michael K

Jan 16, 1999

Wait a fucking minute--*I* have a pipe, damnit! I'm not old!


Later!

--Geoff
(Slipperless WAY South of Seattle)

Jan 16, 1999

Hopefully i'm gonna catcha few people before it's too late. Dont go see IN DREAMS! It's not worth they eight bucks. See it when it comes out on video. Go see Virus like i should have. I tried to enjoy this movie, i tried hard. And to be fair there were times i was enjoying it. By this i mean i wasn't conscious of other things around me. The snickering from young people in the back, the sticky floor and the popcorn clinging to my sweater. Sometimes Jordan managed to get the right scene, with the right tempo, the right soundtrack...the right length. But mostly he didn't. Scenes i wanted to see were cut short and the sound track was one of the worst pieces of shit i have ever heard. God why didn't i go see Virus???? How come no one sits down with these directors before hard and says "Listen, Neil, the way this movie is...it's garbage!" Sure, the guy that says that will probably get a punch in the nose but in the end maybe you have a decent product.

It's "suppossed adult" fair like this that makes looking forward to CHERRY FALLS...TX25....SCREAM 3....I KNOW 3....HAUNTING OF HILL HOUSE...<--which by the way they had a teaser for last night. It was probably the only worth while thing about my movie trip last night.>

Maybe Virus will cheer me up and maybe Andrew Kevin Walker will put faith back into "adult oriented" dark films for me. Until then......KEVIN WILLIAMSON IS THE HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION OF THE WORLD!!!

Reanimated

Jan 16, 1999

Reanimated
I was right there with you until that Kevin Williamson comment! IN DREAMS sucked dog, and I wanted to like it. Downey was awesome, spooky even, but so much of this movie was useless....So much of it was pointless, I mean about 45 minutes worth of the film had nothing to do with the rest of it. I was honest to god surprised at HOW bad this movie was.....They really screwed up what could've been a good thing.....I do want to read the book though.

Hey what's Cherry Falls?
Haunting of Hill House, by the way, will not be a slasher flick. That's all, Matt

Jan 16, 1999

Reanimated:...I wish I would have checked in here before I went to the movies today...IN DREAMS was not worth the 5 bucks I paid to get in...I agree about seeing VIRUS instead...The comic was great...I shoulda seen the movie...Brian Keene

Jan 17, 1999

Cherry Falls is another teen-slasher/horror/thriller movie coming our way.

Reaninated

Jan 18, 1999

Hey Matt,

No sweat. I agree with most of what you say and if everyone's contributions to this site were as thoughtful as yours, my job would be a happy one!

However, I don't know, something got my goat in your post and reading it again I have the same problem. "Media, written, aimed, produced" basically sounds like all movies anyway. Even the most worthy movie is no more than bubblegum for the mind, compared to reading any novel (even most of the bad ones), as I'm sure you'll agree.

We won't agree, it just seemed like you were maybe heading off for Bergman oblivion!

And to continue our past disagreements- WINTER MOON most definitely is one of Dean Koontz weakest efforts to date and CHRISTINE is one of Stephen King's very finest moments! :-)

Hey Geoff, perhaps we should open a Pipe smoking board here at the site. I actually received a new pipe for my birthday a couple of weeks ago after I broke my previous one at the end of last year. Now is there any greater horror than trying to break in a new pipe?

And finally Rean, CHERRY FALLS...another teen slasher/ horror/ thriller ...yippeeee!

Andy F. (32 going on 16)

Jan 18, 1999

Andy

Hahahahaha. No, no Bergman oblivion for me. In fact, I watched DISTURBING BEHAVIOR for the first time tonight and kind of got a kick out of it. Not a wonderful movie, but it kept me entertained that's for sure. I have no problem with these movies at all. BUT I will say that it is probably EASIER, FASTER, and less work to create a decent slasher flick, while creating a decent "quiet" horror film is a much more difficult thing....Scaring someone with a "boo!" is a lot easier than getting into their head and messing something up in there.. Would you agree to that? That's one of the reasons I'm always AMAZED when I watch John Carp's THE THING....How the hell did he manage to make a movie that works as quiet horror film and a gross-out splatter flick at the SAME time? Amazing stuff.

In regards to Dean Koontz' WINTER MOON.....I still say you've spent too much time hovering over a can of paint thinner! As a DEAN KOONTZ novel, it's a bit of a failure in that it goes some places I don't think Koontz is entirely comfortable going, but I think that as a sci-fi/horror novel it's a piece of work a LOT of writers would like to have their name on.
My opinions ya know.

CHRISTINE??? Ooh, big car....Big car scary...Make the big scary car go away. Hahahah. CHRISTINE was fun....Drive-in horror I guess. Nothing more, nothing less.

You baited me damn you and your English heart! Hahahaha. Later,
Matt

Jan 18, 1999

Matt,

I agree and disagree with you in equal proportions (haha). Yes, THE THING is a wonderful movie but I always thought it second fiddle to ALIEN. IN THE MOUTH OF MADNESS was probably the best horror movie I've seen in the last 10 years. Something that puzzles me is that when MOUTH came out it was panned by almost everybody but now a lot of people have done an about turn on this one.

Perhaps the original version of WINTER MOON (was it called INVASION?) may have worked but WM was a bloated snail paced book. Okay which of you writers would like to have your name on the cover of this overblown thriller that turn's halfway through into a second rate TOMMYKNOCKERS? (And I didn't like TOMMYKNOCKERS!)

As for CHRISTINE, was there are scary car in it? I was too busy being overcome with King's vivid and atmospheric picture of a bygone America. I was too busy living my life along with some of King's greatest characters (Arnie, LeBay ) and I was enthralled with the gradual and inevitable destruction of Arnie. Oh yes there was a scary car and who can forget Arnie's rides in her? One of the greatest stories ever told in modern horror fiction and I have revisited CHRISTINE on many occasions.

Enough - we'll agree to disagree, hey Mr. T? There is no middle ground for us on these two!

Andy.

Jan 18, 1999

Of COURSE Christine was scary--it was a CHRYSLER product! *shudder*

Andy--Wouldn't be much help on breaking a pipe in, I'm afraid. I'm still new to it (got one for Christmas, just trying it out). My mother-in-law has a sense of humo(u)r--thought it would be kind of funny to see me smoking a pipe in a recliner, reading some quality literature while listening to something soothing, like... Pantera.


Later!

--Geoff

Jan 18, 1999

Instead of trying to "break in a new pipe" you all ought to just concern yourselves w/ "laying some pipe". Heh heh. Paul Just kidding.

Jan 18, 1999

Andy
Fun discussing these things isn't it? Pretty cool little operation you have going here. EXCELLENT point about ALIEN...The perfect quiet horror/gross out/Boo! combination.

Sticking with my paint thinner theory regarding your opinions on WINTER MOON.

I've been cruising through your masters of terror collection lately, and I see that we're split almost perfectly at 50-50 on what we agree and disagree on. Weird eh? I gotta admit, I was a little dumbfounded by your lukewarm reaction to John Farris' ALL HEADS TURN WHEN THE HUNT GOES BY. I consider it one of the finest novels of the last 3 decades.....Oh well.

Very nice point you made regarding the aspects of CHRISTINE that worked for you. Those things weren't nearly as effective for me because I grew up in the era in which the bulk of this book took place.....There wasn't really much for me to "revisit" and because of that my reactions are quite a bit different than yours. That's what makes fiction wonderful isn't it?
I'm gonna go finish SIEZE THE NIGHT now....I'll let y'all know what I think of it later on.
Hasta, Matt

Jan 19, 1999

Matt,

I really wanted to like ALL HEADS TURN (BAD BLOOD). I remember you recommending it and I really thought it would be the novel to turn me on to Farris. There is something about the fella's writing that just doesn't affect me. Hmmm...maybe not strictly true. The first half of WILDWOOD I thought was terrific, 'soul searching in the woods' material and then it turned into a fantasy novel. Some of CATACOMBS was good and some of SHARP PRACTICE. I suppose I like ALL HEADS TURN the best, but it just didn't elicit any major response in me. Perhaps when I start a FARRIS book I'm subconsciously thinking 'uh-oh, John Farris, I really hope I like this book but I know I'm not going to....'. I'd really be interested to know what it did for you and what perhaps I missed on my first read?

Look forward to your SEIZE THE NIGHT report after the almost global negative comments on FEAR NOTHING. I hope KOONTZ has got back in gear.

I guess when I get around to THE MIDNIGHT TOUR it'll be one of my favourite novels of all time, heh-heh.

Loving it,

Andy.

Jan 19, 1999

Matt
I'm reading Seize The Night too! I'm also interested to see what you think cuz i got a few things i'm gonna want to say when i'm done, that is forsure!

Reanimated

Jan 19, 1999

For those of you who are at all curious, here are my thoughts and reactions to Dean Koontz’s new novel SIEZE THE NIGHT. I apologize if this post comes across as overly serious or as pseudo-intellectual B.S. I take written fiction very seriously and occasionally I like to offer observations with more substance than "it rocked" and "it sucked." (Though I will refer to those particular designators of quality more often than not!) So, for what it’s worth, here you go.


Dean Koontz’s 1998 novel FEAR NOTHING was, in my honest opinion, a miserable failure. I don’t want to go into a detailed explanation of why, but let it suffice to say that I felt this novel was everything that is BAD about D.K.’s writing exemplified over and over, with very little of the what makes him special thrown in to balance the thing out.
Therefore, it was with some hesitation that I parted with my $25 for SIEZE THE NIGHT (Bantam, 1998, 401 pages). I found this sad in a way, as I can remember a time not too long ago when the release of a new Dean Koontz hardback was an enormous event in my life. To my most PLEASANT surprise, SIEZE THE NIGHT was everything I wanted from FEAR NOTHING and much, much more.

As a reader and a critic, I find that Dean Koontz does his very best writing once he has finished addressing his 3 seemingly obligatory "Koontz-isms." Which include: 1) Stuffing you full of background information. 2) Providing paragraph after paragraph of detailed physical description. And 3) Amusing himself. Once Koontz has heaped these things before you, in his crisp, expressive, SoCal manner, he can finally get on with telling the story, or in this case revealing the story a piece at a time.
One of the primary reasons that this book succeeds for me is because Koontz finally seems to feel comfortable with his narrator. Snow’s lyrical use of metaphor and figurative language paint the novel’s visual images MUCH more effectively than Koontz’s typical "picture-postcard" style.
Koontz is an absolute master at placing his characters in situations that reveal the intricacies of their personalities THROUGH the action without sacrificing the pace of the narrative. It’s in this, and many more ways, that SIEZE THE NIGHT benefits from the shortcomings of FEAR NOTHING. While Koontz still often lapses into philosophical meanderings regarding the nature of the human condition and the universe as a whole, he does manage to avoid much of the "purple prose" that bogged him down in FEAR NOTHING.

One complaint that I’m sure will arise from SIEZE THE NIGHT is that no other character besides Snow is granted the fleshing out that they deserve, and that many of us are used to seeing. Personally I think that argument fails. These characters are mysterious, both to the narrator and to us. Koontz’s refusal to detail out their pasts WORKS in this context, and we end up receiving more characterization through their reactions to the resident horror than we ever could through a detailed bio.

The first 100-150 pages of this novel DO still contain plenty of "holes" and Koontz critics will find plenty of ammo therein, most notably in the jarring method through which the story is introduced. However, the final 200 pages contain some of the better sci-fi/horror hybridization I’ve ever seen, and I finished that final section in a single session.
This portion of the novel is effective because Koontz seems to have finally remembered that SPOOKY is GOOD, and that GROSS can be effective. The creeping, crawling horrors that inhabit the "sideways" of the story (Read it, you’ll understand that reference) are flat out creepy….And I loved them.

To me, a novel can succeed for any number of reasons and can fail for a thousand more. SIEZE THE NIGHT is a very balanced novel that should affect more readers positively than negatively. As is usual with Dean’s novels, being an animal lover will help you enjoy the story and being a lover of hard science, (such as the ins and outs of time/space paradox and quantum physics) will leave you feeling let down. Despite these Koontzian idiosyncrasies though, the novel is a wonderful, frightening horror story that will impress a lot of people.
Dean Koontz is a much better writer than he gets credit for. He does something for his readership that goes beyond spooks and general nastiness. He is good. Maybe this novel will make some folks realize that.
I hope so.
That’s all, Matt Taylor

Jan 20, 1999

If you really want to see what a great writer Koontz can be, my suggestion is that you turn to some of his really early novels and novellas, such as 'A Mouse in the Walls of the Global Village'. That's a damn fine novella (first published in Harlan Ellison's AGAIN DANGEROUS VISIONS) and it avoids the 3 Koontzisms pointed out by Matt, probably because Koontz hadn't yet evolved them... I know the characterisation is patchy, but he makes up for it with a sort of all-pervading nervous ambience... I get the same feeling with Koontz as I do when I read Andy Offut (remember him?) or Piers Anthony -- that he was producing all this original, intriguing stuff with potential and then someone took him and shook him and said, "You've got to write blockbusters!", and so he decided to pad out every scene with unnecessary trivia...

Talking about Harlan Ellison, am I the only one who thinks he's written some of the best horror short-stories ever? 'I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream' -- absolutely brilliant!

Rhys

Jan 20, 1999

I just watched DISTURBING BEHAVIOR (or as I like to call it, STEPFORD'S CREEK)... ouch! The one good thing about it is that it's short and fast. The bad points: Did you ever doubt for a second who was going to save the day, and by what means? What's with the LONG talking-head scene in which Gavin explains all the different student cliques--(half of which don't even play a part)--shouldn't a director be able to SHOW all that instead of resorting to five minutes of "live radio"? And Gavin's outlandish suburban hip-hop Shakespearean language makes him the most annoying character since David Johansen in Freejack... I think anyone who reads these boards could have farted out this script in their sleep; at least the SCREAMs kept me guessing (well, the first one did). Ack. I'm going to try DEEP RISING next. Then, since I'm a glutton for punishment, URBAN LEGEND.
Bill B.

Jan 20, 1999

Oops, I need to amend one statement; I went back too far. Gavin is the most annoying character since Kiefer Sutherland in Dark City.
Bill B.

Jan 21, 1999

SEIZE THE NIGHT was the biggest piece of shit i have read in a VERY VERY long time. Why? Why? did i hand over my hard earned money AGAIN after i promised not to???

I'm just gonna mumble and bitch because personally i think that is what Koontz gave me this four hundred page yawner. Firstly, for a main character that NEEDS to avoid light inorder to survive he surely finds himself in MANY MANY MANY situations where he's in light. For christsake! He even hangs out at dawn while the sun is coming up to admire the fucking oak trees in his front yard!!!!! He even hangs out on his porch in broad daylight to yell at some cops!!! What the heck is going on???? If the guy needs to avoid light like a vampire sunlight, then FOR GODSAKE MAKE HIM AVOID IT!! That was supposed to be the big draw with this Snow character! Yet he is always in front of a TV, or a computer, or hangin out on his porch in daylight and he doesn't care! Oh yes we do get the "well, i didn't think it would matter this one time." kinda line. Ok, what-the fuck-ever!.

I completely disagree with any suggestion that his characters are "mysterious". They're cardboard is what they are! And Dean desperately has to lose this "Good and Evil" hardline element. It seems in these novels there are no grey areas. Snow acts like such a fucking saint or martyr that i just wish he would go surfing in broad daylight and die! He acts as if he is the only one in the world that suffers some kind of abnormality or is on the edge of constant death and that we should praise him for living or some such shit. As if he cares! He's always around light when he shouldn't be!! Everyone of his "Good, saintly" characters is just oh so damn nice! And oh so polite. I could practically feel Dean shuddering when he wrote the word "shithead". In one part he couldn't even have his character write the word FUCK.

I'm not even gonna get into the absurd cat and dog stuff or the surfer lingo crap.

The time travel element was as messy ice cream in the hands of an infant. And that leads me to my next annoyance. What the HELL WAS WITH ALL THE SIMILIES???? Holy crow! Every other line was another simile! It was horrible!

If you have any sence, (which any you have is more than me!) you will wait for the paperback, at least! Seize your wallet! Dont give in!

What happened to the good ol' Dean? It was only a few years ago he realeased a hum dinger of a novel in DARK RIVERS OF THE HEART. It was the best cross genre novel i had ever read. Ya, i'll buy the last book in the trilogy. If only to find out where this absurd story leads to. I mean come on, do you really think it will lead anywhere other than the stupid surf scene with all his friends still alive and well and Godly love ruling the waves?? I doubt it.

Reanimated

Jan 21, 1999

I'm not going to get into a yapping session with Reanimated on this subject....It's pointless. I'll let it stand at a simple, albeit total, disagreement. I will remind everyone however, that Reanimated was complaining about this book before he even opened it, and went into it looking for something to justify his SENSE of injustice at having to pay too much for the hardback.
Reanimated, this isn't an attack on you or the way you read, but I wonder if you understand the intricacies of telling a long story through a first person narrative.

Anyway, I think that's about all I can say without starting a new flaming session and once that starts, no one can make a point either way so.....I'm done.
Matt

Jan 21, 1999

Reanimated,

Okay that didn't come out quite right....I don't KNOW that you were LOOKING for a reason to bash this book, that's just a feeling I got. I guess I'm just amazed at how completely opposite our reactions to this book were.
My comment regarding your understanding of the first person narrative came across as a slam, and I didn't mean for it to.
My point was to suggest than in any work as long as this novel, in which we have to depend upon a first person narrative, EVERYTHING that occurs is filtered through the secondary (albeit ficticous) conciousness of the narrator. If Koontz were to flesh these characters out the way he does so well with his better characters, it would have compromised the integrity of his narrator...In this case Chris Snow is just a man and knows these characters only as well as we CAN know another person....Their mysteries, motivations, and true personalities can NEVER be known to us, as we're not omniscient. I'm not saying that every secondary character has to be flat in a novel told through the first person POV....But we can't expect the same kind of insight into their motivations that we would see in the traditional 3rd person POV novel.

Obviously, I'm not going to "talk you into" liking the novel, and any explanation I provide for why I think you're mistaken about this book will come across as my trying to do just that. So let me just say that I don't think you gave the book a fair chance, and that nearly all of the criticisms you've leveled againt SIEZE THE NIGHT can easily be attributed to your dislike of the Christopher Snow character moreso than the novel itself.
Later,Matt

Jan 21, 1999

Matt

I'm saying Koontz's book sucked. Not Koontz himself. Try not to take it too personal, you sounded personally upset there. Member how you liked Dominion? Dude, i thought it was crap. I liked Midnight Tour, you didn't..and no one stopped you from explaining why (except that little thing with Laymon..i just stayed away from that crime scene!!). They were literary reasons just like mine were. Problems with the characters etc. I got the Midnight Tour at higher price than i did Seize the Night. Matt, if anything, the higher price MAKES me look for things to like about it. I hate that it appears (through my other messages..so it's my fault) that i judge a books quality in respect to it's cost. But, since i'm already down this road, the reason i struggled with this book was because it was EXCEPTIONALLY poor. I'm not saying YOU can't like it. I expected you to come at me but come at my points, not me or my understanding of First Person Narrative. Sure, i'm no expert. But i'm not a fucking idiot either!

You might not like my points and maybe that is because you can see where i'm coming from and it goes against your need to like this book inorder to satisfy your deeper conflicting feelings over paying so much for so little. There are a horde of psychological explainations we could look at i'm sure.

Spirited aruments at MOT! I like it! See ya soon Matt!

Reanimated

Jan 21, 1999

Ok i'm back. This my not understanding the first person narrative thing is buggin me. No, when you do that Matt all you're doing is putting novel writing up there with rocket science and YOU CANT DO THAT. I wont let you : ).

I understand perfectly well the "intricacies" of first person. I'm sorry, there are elaborate ways with which one can sharpen and tone a secondary character. The biggest problem i have with the characters, Matt, and why i think they are cardboard...is because THEY WILL NEVER FUCKING DIE. It's a sickness. This living till the final pages. How, Matt, can i appriciate anything that can't die? Why should i care about some fuckin rich surfer named Bobby when i know Koontz isn't gonna kill him off?? Dont get me wrong here Matt, i'm not saying that a main character has to die inorder for me to like a book, but when you send people to hell and back and everyone...EVERYONE (dog, cat, sailer, harley guy, the whole damn crew!) comes out alive and starts eating hot dogs and making funnies at their situation (the harley guy going on a date!) i just think it's bullshit. I dont believe surfers are that lucky. I think every once and awhile they crash. Koontz loves these character and wont let anything happen to them. It's like watching a Steven Segall movie. No one ever touches the guy! Not even a slap. That's what this was like. Even worse it was like a made for tv Steven Segall movie. In other words no bad language and kiddy friendly.

Reanimted

Jan 21, 1999

Reanimated
Hahahahahahahaha......Hilarious (AND VERY GOOD) point about the Steven Stegal movie. I do understand where you're coming from and I would probably agree with you if THIS WEREN'T A DEAN KOONTZ BOOK! You know what kind of characters Koontz writes, you knew what kind of characters he writes BEFORE you started reading this book. You also knew that every book that he's written in the last 10 years or so has been DRIPPING with optimism....Including DARK RIVERS. What I don't understand is how you can approach this novel expecting anything else.
You claim to understand the intricacies of the 1st person narrative and yet you question Koontz' repetitive use of figurative language (similes, metaphors etc) while Koontz has already established the fact that THIS NARRATOR'S FATHER WAS A POET, and instilled in him a love for poetic diction.
I know that your reading abilities are up to par Reanimated, and I didn't mean to question them. But the reason I've responded so vehemently to your attack on this book is because all the criticisms that you've listed can be directly attributed to who this character is and how he views the world. And I repeat, IT'S NOTHING NEW FOR DEAN KOONTZ'S WORK.
You criticize this book for not being realistic when dealing with death, for not containing an overabundance of foul language, and for being "kiddy friendly?" You sound as though you were expecting an Ed Lee story or a Jack Ketchum novel. Reanimated....You KNEW what you were getting into when you dished out the big $$$ for this book, there was never any indication that it would be anything less....AND YOU'RE PISSED ABOUT IT!

Koontz's optimism and easy-going approach to life and death is one of the things that attracts the million or so readers who buy his books, myself included. What were you looking for?

Anyways, I'm really not trying to talk you into liking this book. I'm just saying that most of your arguments seem to stem from the fact that the 1st person POV limits the ability to flesh out secondary characters, makes it mandatory that the story be filtered through ONE conciousness, and insists that the writer maintain a consistent philosophy throughout that narrative. Anything beyond that, that you have a problem with seems to me, to be typical Koontz, which you knew you were getting into when you (painfully) dolled out your $30-some dollars.

This is groovy. Later,
Matt

Jan 21, 1999

Having not read the book yet...THANKS CD PRESS!...I'll only comment on Re's comment about why C. Snow would watch dawn arrive. I feel it's that Koontzian symbolism. To enjoy every bit of what you can't have. Ooooooohhhh, literate horror, huh?? Didn't like FEAR NOTHING, but am looking forward to SEIZE THE NIGHT. Great discussion, though. Paul PS Anybody know when CD Press' editions of STN will be out??

Jan 21, 1999

Matt

Great points! I will at least concede to you on the point about the similies. I mean, some of them were hilarious. I have to admit to even chuckling to myself the odd time at the dark humor. His father was a poet, and i should have taken that more to point i guess. I, unfortunately felt abused by them by the end of the story.

I also have to concede that you are right about my knowing what i was getting into when i started. But i still think that even though Koontz of late has been overly optimistic and preaching love to everyone and all that crap, he's pouring it on even more in these two books. How many times does he (Snow) have to tell us how he feels about his friends? A Zillion times. If you read the first book you know he WORSHIPS AND ADORES their friendship. We dont need to be reminded every four pages.

ANYWAYS! One thing i was thinking was that i feel i get at least some enjoyment out of the discussion i can have with others, like you Matt, on the topic of this book. If i hadn't bought the book i could not have talked to you about it. If we didn't have this message board we surely couldn't have. So hey, that i enjoy the discussions, it gives the positive light to the ....NO! I wont do it. I'm turning into Koontz!!! ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! I HATE! I HATE YOU AND THE REST OF THIS ROTTEN PLANET AND GOD ABOVE!!!!! HATE HATE HATE HATE!!! *sigh* i feel much better now ; ).

Reanimated

Jan 21, 1999

Hahahaahahahah! I hear ya Reanimated, and I have a confession to make......The reason I defend Dean Koontz so vigorously is because........

I WAS THE HAIR DONOR OF HIS NEW HAIR PLUGS!!!!

There. I've said it....The cat is out of the bag. Let me be alone with my shame.

Anyway, I do agree that Koontzian logic and the Koontzian tendency to embrace all things good and holy can indeed be a little overbearing, but in this sometimes depresssing day and age, I see that being a big reason so many people turn to his work.

I've said it before, I'll say it again.....Like the Eagles are the rock band for people who don't really like rock, Dean Koontz is the horror author for people who don't really like horror.
Unfair yes, and I like him even though I'm a die-hard horror fan....but somewhat accurate too.
Either way, he's got some kick-ass hair and we all know it.
Later man,
Matt

Jan 21, 1999

Nerd alert! Three alarms! Women and children first! Take only what you can carry! And above all else -- don't look back! We can all make it out of here alive, if we don't panic!!!! AAAeeeuuuuooooggghhhh!!!!!!!!!

Jan 22, 1999

Lick my ass you fuckhead.

Jan 22, 1999

Oh God, it's happened once more! Just when a few people where discussing a topic with various serious and humurous observations, some anonymous dweeb has to post a 'funny' remark, and everything goes pear-shaped again. I have in my possession a fully-licensed InterTracker program by Zytec On-Line Services. This tracker can pin-point the EXACT location of any user who's logged on to any particular server/host. Unfortunately, as I'm obviously not host to this address, I'm unable to use it. You may take this message as a bluff, but I'm willing and able to forward details to Andy Fairclough for his evaluation, and if he so wishes, I can then send him ordering details. It may seem drastic and, indeed, laborious for Andy to cycle through all messages to discover their source, but it may make people think twice before they deposit their anonymous piffle.

Peter Curtis, Zytec On-Line (and horror fan!)

Jan 22, 1999

What utter crap! Okay, hotshot computer bloke, where am I? As if I cared!

Titty-face.

Jan 22, 1999

He does have a point though....This is a horror site, and we discuss horror here. Why, other than just being a complete dickhead, would anyone take the time and effort to come in here, just to insult the people who enjoy the board? Anything that can be done to discourage that, and to keep the dickhead population to a minimum.....Hey, I'm all for it.
Otherwise....Well they can still lick my ass.
MT

Jan 22, 1999

Not to defend the above anon or anything but this is the Cellar. It was put in primarily as a devise to keep the crud in one spot. If anyone NEEDS to spurt their jiz somewhere...let it be here. Matt and i and others were holding a discussion that was probably more suited to the Book Review Board. But on the other hand i cant possibly fathom what made anon feel the need to post what s/he did. Oh well.

Anyone out there read Vampyrhic (sp? sorry dont have it infront of me)? What did you think? I just started it and so far it's Clark at a level i've yet to read him. It's great stuff. Hope it stays that way...i've read a few reviews that it starts hard but softens near the end.

Also, i just saw in the bookstore a novel called CROTA by Gooding something or other. It apparently won the Bram Stoker award (not that that's saying much) Is this worth reading?

Reanimated

Jan 22, 1999

Damn it Reanimated, there you go making sense again.
VAMPYRRHIC is incredible, and the first 50 or so pages are unbe-fucking-lievable. If Clark keeps improving the way he is.....Wow!
Matt

Jan 22, 1999

I have VAMPYRRIC on my to be read pile as well as CROTA by Owl Goingback. As far as the anon person, if u ignore it it will go away. By having any discussions about it, or replies to it, it will stay. A certain a-hole who used to be on these boards has not surfaced in a long while. Why?? Nobody was responding to his crap. So just keep the topics the way they've been lately, it's been great!! Paul

Jan 22, 1999

Howdy, all,

I'm coming to these boards late, I can't bear to read Koontzfor the treacly reasons outlined by both Matt and Reanimated above, and IMNSHO he's about as literary a read as Jewel's latest book of poems.

What I wanted to comment on is the so-five-minutes-ago discussion of horror films that went on a week or so ago, and the lamentation of their lack of literary merit. Take a historical view of the horror film: In the grand tradition of MASS media where the bottom line is king, the literary horror film has always been the exception and not the rule. Traditions get mucked with, casting decisions are made based on the budget and who will be attracted to the theaters, and writers remain at the bottom of the Hollywood ladder. If you think this is new, read Raymond Chandler's letters about his experiences in La-La land. As viewers we should enter into the theater (or the video store) with the same lowered expectations as Matt recommends you pick up a Koontz book.

This is Hollywood. The people who brought you Independence Day, fer cryin' out loud. A film like Scream or Disturbing Behavior is not going to set back the genre in the public's eye. However, the Friday the 13th series and its host of imitators has irreperably (perhaps) damaged the public perception of horror. At least Scream has a sense of humor about itself and appeals to the media-savvy market for which it is aimed. I thought Disturbing Behavior was a smart and engaging film, bereft of the trappings of poor production and silly dialogue that hampers much of what passes for entertainment in the local cineplex. If you go to these films expecting literary merit and plumbing of the depths of the human psyche, you are deluded to begin with. This sort of borderline schizophrenia leads to jeremiads on the decline of western civilization and a desperate desire to either stick one's head in the sand or tilt at windmills. Literate storytelling is not the job of the Hollywood film, and anyone's gauzy memories of it having been otherwise are as reliable as the saccharine reminisences of school days and summer vacations.

We would be better served by focusing our energies on stopping the hemorrhaging of the book publishing industry with a tourniquet of quality fiction that will grab the public's attention and thereby squeeze the publishers ot put life back in the genre. Sorry to go on so long.

Jackula

Jan 22, 1999

Stay away from CROTA. You think Koontz has cardboard characters, as discussed above, you ain't seen nothing 'til you've read CROTA. Worst horror novel I've read in a long time. How it won the Stoker, I'll never know. Riley

Jan 23, 1999

So CROTA sucks eh? I kinda got that feeling from the general opinions I've been hearing. However, if you want the King Book of All Suckitude, try giving James Patterson's WHEN THE WIND BLOWS a read. I love this guy's Alex Cross novels...They keep getting better and better as does his writing in general But this....fucking THING is the most gawd-awful bunch of crap I've spent my good time reading in a looooooooooooooong time.
Hey I'm a Dean Koontz fan (and I never said you should LOWER your expectations when reading Koontz jackula, and you can go suck a fat one for putting words in my mouth) and have been for a long time....But James Patterson should NEVER TRY TO BE DEAN KOONTZ AGAIN! Honestly, from start to finish, it's a poorly written, poorly organized, pitiful excuse for a novel. Worth reading so you'll know what good fiction is when you see it, and little more.
Matt

Jan 24, 1999

"Dean Koontz is the horror author for people who don't really like horror." Those are your exact words, not my interpretation of them, but from the other comments you made about Koontz you do seem to be advocating a type of lowered expectation, at least for the horror fan. I'm not saying that every book has to laden with grue or entirely downbeat, but Reanimated is right to point out that Koontz's characters suffer from the Superman syndrome of Lestat in "Tale of the Body Thief." You rightly point out that this is not an Ed Lee book, but it's not much of a book at all when there's little suspense about the mains characters. King was able to create suspense in Bag of Bones despite the dangers of a first-person narrative. Because Konntz's characters are so unbelievable, and we know from experience that he won't kill off anyone we *really* care about, the excitement of the story leaks away.

I'm sorry that you believe that I misrepresented your views, but there's no reason for you to snarl, Matt. A simple correction would suffice, without the crude comment.

If you all are interested in reading the most over-hyped and undeserving novel of the last year, I direct your attentions to Caitlin Kiernan's "Silk". I finally managed to find threads of a plot somewhere around page 160, but I still carred so little about the characters that I barely was able to force myself to skim to the end. Angry, self-indulgent slackers do not compelling fiction make. This looks like something a literate 17-year-old would write and share with her friends, not an auspicious debut deserving of the touting it has received from some major names in the business. Apparently being part of the goth-hip-caffeine scene allows Kiernan to be exempt from using such outmoded things as verbs, as well. Give this one a wide berth and be prepared to shake your heads in sad wonder when it wins the Stoker for best first novel this summer. --Jackula

Jan 24, 1999

Hey bitch
I snarl from time to time, buck up.br
Now, that's just me giving you a hard time....Don't be such a sissy.

I never said that you should lower your expectations when reading a Dean Koontz book, I said that you should be prepared for his optimistic, low-impact brand of horror, and know what you're getting yourself into. Koontz isn't Lee, Ketchum, or Laymon. He's his own niche in the genre, and it's important that we have some diversification in this business or else it becomes crap.

It's silly, and stupid to question the overall worth of Koontz's writing because it affects SO many people positively. It doesn't matter what you think of the writing, one SOME level, in SOME way, it makes a WHOLE lot of people happy, and I'm not into insulting the readership. Are you?
Regardless, I'm not saying that Dean Koontz is creating the finest fiction around. I'm just saying that he writes a type of fiction that is extremely successful for what it is.

Now, having got that out of the way, I have to say that I couldn't agree with you more on your Kiernan assessment. You hit the nail on the head, and for that I will no longer refer to you in expletives. Also, the point you made about the richness of King's characters in BOB despite the fact that the book was told throught the 1st person narrative, was very valid. King is in a catagory all by himself. But I will remind you that it took him 500 some pages to do accomplish it.

Anyway, kick-ass summary of Kiernan. Later
Matt

Jan 24, 1999

to do accomplish it...
I rule. MT

Jan 25, 1999

Okay, what other good fiction are you people reading? Is anyone hyped about a particular new novel, besides Brian Hodge's WILD HORSES, that is? I just saw the cover of that one, and man, the publisher seems to want to bury it already. Shoes? The fuck is that?

Jan 25, 1999

First off, to the person who commented on the cover of Brian Hodge's WILD HORSES. You are correct that it sucks...but it is NOT the cover it'll have when it invades bookstores in late Feb. Brian didn't like it, so it got the heave-ho. i haven't seen the new cover but hear it's an improvement...it have to be, huh?? New books?? Piccirilli's HEXES, THE NIGHT SCHOOL, collection and SORROW'S CROWN are anticipated. Clegg's collection and YOU COME WHEN I CALL. Ed Lee's collection and rereleased THE BIGHEAD by Overlook. Lucy Taylor's newest novel. F. Paul Wilson's Repairman Jack novel. I don't know what the problem is with you people and Kiernan. I loved SILK and think the first 1/3 to 1/2 is some of the best-written prose I've read in a long time. The end/explanation was lame and not resolved enough. Otherwise I dug it. I'm glad you people at least read it. Do yourself a favor and get Christa Faust's CONTROL FREAK...I CAN'T believe that didn't get nominated at all. Paul

Jan 25, 1999

Faust, Kiernan, Brite.....Same shit, different dyke.

Jan 25, 1999

Jackula...Godd to see you back in here man, and you summed up my thoughts on SILK perfectly...I know I won't be nominating that one for a Stoker...As for the rest of you, if you want a recommendation, go get yourself a copy of HEXES!...It's the best damn horror novel I've read in a long time...And of course, WILD HORSES should be a great read too.

Jan 25, 1999

P.S....That last post was from me by the way, but not that homophobic missive above it...Brian Keene

Jan 26, 1999

Nice "dyke" comment. Just when things were getting above "shit level:, huh? Paul

28 Jan - Whoops something happened there and I lost a few posts. Sorry. I'd forgotten to upload a number of the archives, still nobody noticed did they? Anyway back to business - AF

Jan 28, 1999

This still working. Guess we'll have to start a new topic. How 'bout: Which books/authors are you looking forward to in '99?? I'll go with Ed Lee's USHERS collection; Brian Hodge's WILD HORSES...more to see how fans react to this unique piece; Lucy Taylor's latest novel; anything by Little, Laymon; Would like to seehow the first novelists bsck up their predecessors's like Faust, Kiernan etc.: and whatever the delicious mind of Poppy Z. Brite comes up with; Tom Piccirilli's collection also. How 'bout you? Paul

Jan 28, 1999

Looking forward to the new Charles Beaumont collection 'A Touch of the Creature'.

Michael K

Jan 28, 1999

I'm reading one of them I was looking forward to right now, RIGHT TO LIFE by Jack Ketchum. tom M

Jan 28, 1999

Looking forward to Ed Lee's USHERS, Hodge's WILD HORSES (of course), Pic's new collection, and the Stephen King short story collection...Brian Keene

Jan 29, 1999

For me it has to be SALT SNAKE by Simon Clark and REALLY ... WEIRD STORIES by John Shirley -Andy

Jan 29, 1999

Okay time to tackle something that's been bugging me and after all isn't that what The Cellar is here for?

I think FRIGHTNET has got a damn liberty, quite honestly. First off we all know how apathetic most readers are when it comes to on-line fiction, yet despite this Mr. Graves states that he receives around 10,000 hits per issue. Now this is rubbish. I think this is a false lure to both advertisers and writers who may send their stories in. Most on-line fiction zines do not receive anywhere near this kind of hit count and I cannot believe that FRIGHTNET does.

From what I can gather Horrornet at it's peak (when it was updated regularly) used to get around 1,000 a week (FRIGHTNET claims it get more than this) and Andy states in his column here that the main page of this site sometimes scores around 300 a week.

Either Graves is being brutally dishonest to both his advertisers and his writers or he has a hit counter that can't add up. Do you really think that a small horror fiction site that is only updated *once every two months* really gets a higher number of hits than Horrornet & Masters of terror combined?? Especially when it has no lure like message boards or a successful chat area?

Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with Frightnet - at times it has published good fiction but I just wish there was a little more honesty about it. I would really be surprised if Frightnet gets over 1,000 visits per issue (two months).

Guy on a High Horse.

Jan 29, 1999

'High Horse' you may be right!

I see Frightnet is advertising that it is going to pay for some stories as a 'one off'. Quarter of a cent a word woweee! This means for a 10,000 word sweat you'll get $2.50. For a typical 3000 word tale you'll get 75 cents! Are they having us all for fools or what?

Guy on Trigger.

Jan 29, 1999

I'm looking for some thoughts. Is Vampire Junction by Somtow worth reading? Also, saw New, Improved Murder by Gorman in the book store today. Worth gettin?

Reanimated

Jan 30, 1999

How in the world did FrightNet Online Magazine ever manage to end up in the cellar? Yikes...Graves under siege, here.
Make no bones about it, FrightNet gets hits. I'm not sure, exactly, where the 10,000 figure came from. Hell, it may have even come from me, because the magazine has had high-end issues and low-end issues, the strongest of which garnered around 8,000 hits in a two month period.
I've never tried to mislead people. I've never claimed that exposure is a form of payment. I've never left the author unnoticed for his ownership of the work. I have tried to offer the most professional treatment to authors and artists as I possibly can. How many hits to the site is more accurate on a routine basis? A little over 5,500—that's per issue, folks. Per two-month period. That does not include repeat hits to the same issue when it is posted simultaneous with the current issue.
I don't like false claims anymore than anyone else does, and my intention has never been to mislead anyone into thinking FrightNet is bigger than it really is. Truly, I'd be interested to see what purpose it would serve. First off, FrightNet does not have any advertisers (at least not yet). The magazine has made about $30 or so on sales through the bookstore—and if you ask me, that's pretty poor.
As for payment, well, I can tell you that I've been troubled by this thing for as long as the magazine has been on the web. We simply cannot do it. The reasons are simple, most has to do with money, and the fact that the web is a different beast than print, and therefore cannot tackle revenue generation in the same way. All things must be taken into consideration, and all avenues explored until a viable solution can be acknowledged.
So what's the special issue? Why the pay? Because I feel it's about time FrightNet begins to make at least some commitment towards paying in the future, or finding ways to pay for at least a portion of the material published on site. It's money coming out of my pocket. As for me, I spend 80-100 hours a month working on this thing. I have a commitment to the readers to bring them what they want, and a commitment to the contributors to make the best effort I can to tend to their needs—including finding ways to make the site financially able to pay its contributors. Not that I have any problem with writers wanting money for their hard work, but really. The statement that was made by "the guy on target" really bugged me once and for all. What about me? For all of these hours doing everything I have to do just to keep it all together and on time shouldn't I be getting something as well? Some form of compensation? I think the only fool in this game would be me—but honestly, I have no qualms. I do it because it's what I like to do, and that someone cares to see what I've done is payment enough. The point is that the argument made by "the guy on target" just isn't worth a bag of beans.
As for your references to "other web publications," well, I think it's a little pompous, and a little unfounded to make assumptions that all things are created equal. I've prided myself with trying to do the best that I can. I want a professional, close-to-print looking magazine. I want to promote authors, the horror genre, and the small-press. In doing that I want to publish the best quality fiction and non-fiction that I can possibly have at my disposal at the present time.
As for making comparisons to FrightNet with HorrorNet or Andy's own Masters of Terror, well, that doesn't make much sense either—mainly because the three sites are not built on the same foundations. They're not in exactly the same game. Why does FrightNet not have chat, or message boards? Because we are a magazine, and that's essentially the breadth of what I want the site to be. Too many other sites that claim to be a fiction magazine are really just java ports with a few fiction selections...that's not FrightNet. Nor is it the direction I wish to go in.
FrightNet gets hits, and while I wish I was getting 10,000 per month, it just isn't so. I've never once claimed that it was. As for our weekly statistics? We average around 250 hits per day—sitewide. What does that mean? That means that 250 pages are accessed daily on site, whether they be the main page, fiction pages, Horrible Links, articles...250 of them get clicked into each and every day. That's the truth. It is something that gets tracked through a perl/cgi based tracking program (wwwstats), and I don't recall handing out figures to anyone other than the editorial staff.
Ivan S. Graves
Senior Editor: FrightNet Online Magazine
http://www.frightnet.com
isgraves@frightnet.com

Jan 30, 1999

By the way, didn't really notice it right off the bat...but I think those pay figures are wrong. "Damnit Jim. I'm an editor, not a mathematician!" At any rate, I'm calculating a quarter of a cent per word as .0025 derived from .01 divided by 4, or breaking a penny four ways. .0025, conversely, equals .01.
That 3,000 word tale would earn $7.50, the 5,000 word tale $12.50.
Hey, maybe it's my math that's wrong...who know's. But those are the figures I get--and yes, evem those aren't anything to write home about. Granted. But it's more than FrightNet has ever paid for anything it has published in the past.
Anyway, my rant is over (quiet the cheers)--aside from one thing I wanted to address in the last post and failed to. That is that FrightNet's attraction to contributors is hopefully a product of what we are doing. That we are operating professionally. That our layout is sound. That we are doing what any respectable magazine ought to be doing...I don't ever tell writers, "hey, we get X amount of hits, why not send something in." It's part of the reason hit counters are not displayed on site. Any attention we get should be for no other reason than that we are doing what we are supposed to be doing...publishing fiction.
Ivan Graves

Jan 30, 1999

Ivan, Well said. As a part-time reviewer to FRIGHTNET, I'd like to say that the reviews section RULE, heh heh. Anyways, FRIGHTNET serves a purpose: good fiction. Anything else is extra. As for payment, I'm declining any/all payment for the "Special issue" that's coming out. Ivan, keep the money and just keep doing the great job you already are. Cheers, Paul

Jan 30, 1999

so um...Vampire Junction? ; )

Reanimated

Jan 30, 1999

You're doing a great job, Ivan. I'm looking forward to the next issue. Dillon

Jan 31, 1999

Reanimated: Lots of people like "Vampire Junction"; it just didn't do it for me, it's very well-written, but for me I just couldn't make myself care. Somtow's a great writer, if you haven't read him, I'd start with his collection; "Pavillion of Frozen Women".

John

Jan 31, 1999

Ivan Graves, Andy Fairclough and Matt Schwarz are all to be commended. They have infused the moribund state of the genre with a lot of ideas and enthusiasm. They are all very professional and approachable. Let's face it, they're trying their damndest to help keep this thing afloat. We should be lauding their efforts, not dragging them down with anonymous postings.

Michael K

Jan 31, 1999

Here, here John. I just finished VAMPIRE JUNCTION about a month ago and it was hard work. Something I have not found with othr excellent novels like MOON DANCE and DARKER ANGELS. For me VJ was just another ricey vampire story - Andy.

Jan 31, 1999

FRIGHTNET is an excellent on-line publication. 'nuff said - Andy F.

Jan 31, 1999

If you wanna see the *real* cover for Brian Hodge's WILD HORSES go to the news section of his newly revamped website here: www.para_net.com/~brian_hodge/ Paul

Feb 1, 1999

High horse here. I still say you've got something wrong with your hit counter Graves. There is no way that you get 250 hits per day for a static website updated only once every two months. Most of your issues feature unknown writers - your stats don't add up. No - way -jose. You never answered my point - people come back to Horrornet and masters of terror *because* of the chat rooms and message boards. There is no reason to visit your site more than once every two months.

And in fact, you have blabbed about the hit count in various places. I've seen it, so you've proven yourself a liar.

Seems to me like your trying to promote yourself more than anything else. I know I seem to be the bad guy here, but I'm *not* lying. Just trying to expose something that leaves an unsavoury taste in the mouth.

I think it's obvious why you don't display your hit counter on your site. I repeat if you are getting more than 250 hits per WEEK, I'll not only get off my high horse - I'll eat it.

Feb 1, 1999

I work for a web promotions company and having reviewed Frightnet's content and update schedule, in my best estimation I would say that it is virtually impossible that the www.frightnet.com site achieves anywhere near 250 hits per day.

A 'hit' is a new visit to any page or pages on a site. No matter how many pages are accessed on the visit it counts as one hit. I can only guess that Frightnet must be counting the access of each page on it's site as an individual hit. This still does not account for this high figure. It is possible that the figure supplied by Frightnet may be as much as ten times higher than the actual number of visits received.

Any site that achieves the number of visits that Frighntet lays claim to would be an immensely successful and (generally) regularly updated proposition. While the 'horse' person has a pretty poor attitude, he may in fact be correct in his overall claims. Many of my paying clients would be happy to get one third of the visits claimed to be passing through Frightnet.

John R. Blatherwick

Feb 1, 1999

Hey, if Ivan isn't using these numbers as a means of luring in prospective writers or commercial interests, I don't see that it matters all that much WHAT his hit count is. I don't think the guy has ever come to these boards and been deliberately dishonest so let's just cut him a break eh?

The guy runs a site where we have FREE access to new horror fiction, reviews, and horror links......Christ you think we'd show some appreciation.
Not confused about why horror is in bad shape,
Matt

Feb 1, 1999

I agree one hundred percent, Matt!...Ivan is guilty of nothing but using some old marketing and promotion tactics...So he exaggerated his hit counter?...So what, boys and girls...This gets done by advertising execs in both America and England EVERY FREAKING DAY...Pepsi is supposed to be better than Viagra and the Holy Grail all rolled into one...Has a sip of Pepsi ever had this effect on you?...Of course not, it's an exaggeration...If you're not going to take corporate America to task for it, why in the world would you attack Ivan for doing the same thing...The guy runs a FREE website, devoted to our genre, and makes no money off it, nor does he stand to for a while...LET HIM PROMOTE IT!!!...If exaggerating his hit counter earns him a few extra passerby, good for him!...Let me ask you this High Horse...If you sold a horror novel to a publishing company and then found out that they were'nt going to promote it for you, wouldn't you possibly exaggerate just a little bit to sell more copies?...I admit that I would and I think most of us would too...Brian Keene

Feb 2, 1999

Maybe someone's been trying to stir me up, I don't know.
All I'll say (and for God's sake let's put this to bed) is that I believe at this moment in time that MASTERS OF TERROR is the most visited horror fiction based site on the web. I don't necessarily strive for this but with HORRORNET going off the rails (for very good reasons) this site is really the only regularly updated general purpose site out there at the moment. MASTERS OF TERROR receives 600 to 800 visits a week (without exaggerating)! Without the message boards that figure drops to around 300 to 400 a week. It has taken 15 months of growth and promotion to reach those figures.
If Ivan says he's getting 250 hits a day at FRIGHTNET then obviously his figure is wrong. But as Matt and Brian says who cares? Please 'high horse' and the other person let it drop and let's get onto something else!

Andy F.

Feb 4, 1999

Some of you lucky folk will no doubt be attending the WORLD HORROR CONVENTION in Atlanta next month. Unfortunately, despite my having it as a thought in the back of my mind to attend this year, I will not be able to hop over the Atlantic for the first time in my life.

My question is: Who would like to write an article covering proceedings at this year's convention? I guess I'll be looking for a piece covering exactly what goes on, who was there etc,. In fact something that makes people like me wish we could have attended! If you are interested and indeed think you could grab one or more of the attendees for brief interviews or comments under the 'Masters Of Terror' name so much the better. Either drop me an e-mail at andyfair@aol.com or post a message here.

Thanks, Andy F.

Feb 4, 1999

Hello, and forgive a new person's intrusion. I've been looking for a message board for horror books for one main reason: I'm trying to find a paperback book that I read years ago, owned and lost, and can't really remember the title or author. How much of a challenge is that for you all? If anyone reading this feel up to the challenge, or has advice on how I could find this book by giving a brief synopsis of the plot, please email me at Scullycat2@aol.com. PLEASE HELP!!

Feb 5, 1999

Just a note here, and a good natured one at that, intended for Andy in regards to this site:

Having just read you editor's column, and finished off the drudgery that is Rick Kleffel's Agony Column, I offer you this little piece of advice which you can consider, ignore, or throw back in my face, depending upon your mood.
Masters of Terror, though gaudy and gorey, was fine. If you attempt to over-intellectualize what we come here for, and why we come here at all, you're very likely to alienate a good number of the people who GAVE you those 1,000 message board hits. I understand 100% what you'd like to do with this site, and support you all the way. But when you start tyring to affect the readership as a whole, you're opening yourself up to more trouble than I think MOT is ready to handle.

You've come this far based on your own decision making and I've sung and will continue to sing your praises to fans everywhere. But I caution you to please be very careful with what you're doing here. I enjoyed the changes myself until I read the motivation behind them. All of this "perhaps the most important" and "Soon to be the leading" stuff should be left for others to decide. When it's self-advertised it takes something away from the meaning.

Anyway Andy, I really do mean this well. Your site has kicked serious ass for a long time now and I want to see that continue. Best of luck,
Matt

Feb 5, 1999

Ha, as usual Matt I disagree with you!

While I like to think I'm not closed to constructive criticism, I don't really think I've changed that much in the way I operate. Consider, ignore or throw back in your face.......probably the latter as I'm an opinionated and fiery sort.

Fuck, Matt, I'm reading my worthless editorial and trying to see what got your goat as to my 'motivation'. Firstly, I said that it would be nice to move to a .com address one day. I followed this up by saying that the current throughput of visitors doesn't justify mine (and Rick's) investment at this point.

My next comment was about trying in my very small way to perhaps encourage some people into reading horror fiction by expanding the boundaries of what the site covers. Is this a bad thing? It probably won't work, but I've never been one to sit around and watch something I love just fall apart, when I may be able to do something about it, albeit in a very small way. When I get letters from people telling me that they have been buying and reading through titles in my rather cheesy 'all time top 100' listing, I am surprised and shocked and it does make me take it a bit more seriously. When someone tells me that they only used to read King and Koontz but have now started reading other authors becuase of what they've seen at MOT - I do consider it a personal triumph.

I then gave *my* opinion of Rick Kleffel's new column. You don't like it - okay fair enough. However whenever I get enthused about something I tend to be fairly passionate. Hell, that's why I spend a ridiculous amount of time maintaining this site. (I don't know what feedback Rick is getting yet but thus far it has been well visited). Fuck I get excited about things - reading your current 'banter' with Richard Laymon gave me a big thrill, when someone sends me a book review to read I get a kick out of reading it.... I try to transfer that enthusiasm to the site.

As for 'over-intellectualizing' I don't think I could do that if I tried (don't forget that this is the guy who loved I KNOW WHAT YOU DID LAST SUMMER and the new GARY HOLLEMAN novel!) I don't get a huge amount of feedback about the site but when I do I tend to listen. Especially when that feedback comes from people I have respect for.

I just don't get what your issue is - you didn't like Rick's column (which he incidentally spent many hours sweating over for no gain to himself) and you don't approve of my enthusing about it? Self publicity ??? I happened to repeat a couple of comments that I'd been sent from people I respect. Hell some websites have quotes splattered all over their web pages - look what so and so said about this site - blah,blah,blah.

My final comments : When I put hit counters on various pages at the site I was staggered by the number of visitors to certain pages. This made me feel a bit more responsible and thoughtful about future content. Is that wrong? Should I listen to the genuine comments I get from people via e-mail I or should I pay special attention to your public rant which I can't fathom? I tend to lean toward the former but at the end of the day I've got to listen to myself.

Andy F.

Feb 5, 1999

I have just wasted time digging my way through one geocities advertisment after another to read Mr. Kleffel column and I must say I found some of his comments rather insulting. I'm sure he feels he's being quite the wit when he refers to US horror as 'American Cheese' and "American Grocery Store Fiction' but as an American horror writer I did not see the humor. Exactly how is this promoting the genre? And refering to Leasure as "Sleazure' was pretty childish. Masters Of Terror is a great site but this 'Agony Column' is an insult.-ASHP

Feb 5, 1999

I'd agree with Matt and Ashp about Rick Kleffel's general thumbing of his nose at American publishers in his Agony Column. Maybe it shouldn't have gotten my back up, but it did.

While I enjoy his fervor and the overall intelligence he brings to his pieces, and I happen to agree with him on his reviews for the most part ((CROTA did blow dead grizzlies and WILDEST DREAMS is great, though I think Rick missed something in HEXES, that novel fuckin' rawked from page one on!)) I think Rick should respect the efforts of American publishers a little more, especially Leisure, who pretty much has the only horror line on either side of the Atlantic.

I joined their book club nearly a year ago, and have been impressed with most of their titles. Okay, some of their books have been cheesy, even sucky, true enough (I didn't care much for Hoffman's or Holleman's work either) but is that reason to call the whole industry Grocery Store books? Shit, after such a dry spell that's lasted YEARS here, I'm glad to see horror back in the Grocery. Man, I only wish I could get it into my butcher shop and my local bakery, too! The edge in Rick's voice is a passionate one, but ultimately he settles on being pompus rather than just discerning.

Des.

Feb 5, 1999

Andy-
No man, I think you misunderstood me. Or more realistically, maybe I didn't make my complaint clear enough. My problem with the site and your motivations behind the change stem from your commments about the page "dripping blood" and being over-the-top in with its gore.
I get the distinct feeling that you're trying to clean the place up, polish it and make it suitable (or open it up rather) for a different kind of audience. Am I wrong there? My point is, in trying to make this place clean, shiny, and highbrow, I think you're letting down a bunch of people who came here for the darker, grittier, grimy stuff. I know I'm a little let down. The dripping blood and Arensberg artwork were a part of this place, and the FEELINGS that they invoked set the tone for the site as a whole. Already, with some sections of the site, you can see this new attitude permeating the overall "vibe."

And I never did call your column worthless Andy. I dig your column and I enjoy hearing what you have to say. My only deragotory statement towards the Kleffel column was that I found it to be a drudgery. If you want more, I could go on to say that it comes across as an ugly exercise in self-importance, that I find his views extremely short-sighted, and that, like ASHP, I find his approach insulting.

But the Kleffel column isn't the heart of my complaint, nor is your striving to make this site all it can be. My complaint is that you suggest that by cleaning this place up and making it more highbrow that you can open yourself up to more success and possibly introduce readers to a wider range of talent. EXCELLENT GOALS, but in my opinion, your approach was fine before. Superb even. If it works, more power to you....But if your hits start dropping and you find that you've alienated a portion of your "visitor-ship" please understand why.

That's all.
Matt

Feb 5, 1999

Andy

MOT's "white washing" sucks.

I don't mean to sound too harsh but man it really stinks. You're sending your site down the traditional road that horror always ends up walkin down. It's the "GENERAL FICTION" road. I dont know, *sigh* it's disappointing. I loved all the shit the way it was set up before. And when you changed it before at least you changed in degree not type. Horror just never seems to be able to hang on to anyone. The authors are the same way. Yeah they fuckin write a few awsome horror stories and then they fuckin bail!! (ofcourse, there are exceptions)

Looks like MOT is bailing too. I dont understand how cleaning up the site (someone said that didn't they? Shame it has to be thought of as "cleaning up". Speaks volumes.)and making it "neat and tidy" are going to do to bring in new hits. Also, what is it with "hits" lately??? Is this a big fuckin deal??? How many more hits a day will it take to make these guys happy?

I liked this place most when i thought it was just some guys web site and he happened to attract a couple of name authors (Laymon, T.M Wright) to visit a message board regularily. Now with the advertisments and the "cleaning" i dont think my kind of person is welcome here anymore. Atleast not without my fuckin tuxedo ; ). No, but i also think you, Andy, have %100 RIGHT to do what you feel is right for your page. I just think it was better before.

More generally, why is it that horror has this happen to it over and over again??? I just don't understand *sigh*.

Reanimated

Feb 5, 1999

Oh yeah

Matt, i finished Vampyrrhic. It was pretty awsome but i think it could have been shorter.**********SPOILER*********I thought it would have been better if Leppington had takin over the vampire army and gone psycho! It's too bad because without him doing that it seemed like much of the same vampire stuff we've seen before.********END OF SPOILER******* I'm reading Strakers Island by Steve Harris now. Have you read this book? So far it's awsome!!

I saw A SIMPLE PLAN recently and it completely made up for IN DREAMS and VIRUS. Billy Bob Thorton was just fuckin incredible!!!!!(Just too bad, as a buddy of mine pointed out, that it's success will mean the end to any chances of Raimi ever directing a horror flick again. I'm still hoping...funny...i'm got deja vu) Has anyone seen the previews for The Mummy?? They look super. Can't wait for that one to hit the big screens.

Reanimated

Feb 5, 1999

Reanimated--I saw A SIMPLE PLAN last night and loved it! This one just builds and builds. And actually, I consider it a horror movie. Actually during the movie (during the scene where Lou goes a bit crazy with a gun) the whole audience were on the edge of their seat, squirming. In fact, one lady, not being able to contain herself, cried out, "Oh geez, I can't take this. This IS a horror movie!" If Raimi keeps doing stuff like this, I'll be darn happy. tom

Feb 6, 1999

At least half the people that post here and visit this site are Americans and you trash us?....where's old Horrornet when you need it?

Feb 6, 1999

tom

Totally agree...that one scene was pretty disturbing and tense. It had me on the edge of my seat (almost hiding under it). i would also be happy if Raimi continued in this vein...it's just that i love the heck out of those Evil Dead films!!!

Reanimated

Feb 6, 1999

Andy-
Just wanted to say that the anti-American sentiment angle never really occurred to me. That's another discussion (One I look forward to) for another day.
Like I said....My complaint with MOT stems from the suggestion that blood, gore, disturbing images, and campy, fun horror somehow makes it difficult for fans to take the genre, and this site, as seriously as you'd like them to. I think you underestimate us.

Finally, I am absolutely chomping at the goddamn bit to jump on this American horror vs. British horror discussion....But for now I'd rather sit back and see what else pops up. Perhaps you could pursuade the Great Grand Master of Pomposity Mr. Kleffel to grab a torch and slip down here into the cellar for a moment, if for nothing else than to explain his aversion to popular American horror.
Waiting anxiously, and putting on my beast suit (Laymon fans?),
Matt

Feb 6, 1999

Hi all:

Rick K.: I'd hardly call books such as Elizabeth Massie's wonderful Southern Gothic "Sineater" or books by Richard Laymon or Tom Picirilli "American Cheese". Further, this is a new Leisure books, the names of the imprints are the same but the corporate structure has changed; I think that this new Leisure is doing a splendid job of getting quality work into the mass-market and certainly doesn't merit being tagged "Sleazure".

Mass-market houses with bonafide horror lines are scarce enough as it is, let's not slam one that's trying to atone for the sins of their previous incarnation. It's a shame that they haven't developed a hardcover line yet, but perhaps that will happen...

John Pelan

Feb 6, 1999

      It leaves me to ponder that ever increasingly cliche phrase coined by the ill-fated Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?" At the same time, and before I go any further I'd just like to say thanks to those who took up for FrightNet—and for any other of these great places we can find on the world wide web to get our daily dose of fright.
      However much controversy we might find in the operations behind it all, I think they are all vitally important to keeping the horror genre out there for whoever wishes to see what it's all about.
      Look, truth is I don't really give a hoot how many people do or do not access my own website, or frankly what Joe Blow web marketer thinks is possible or impossible. It's terribly missing the point if that's what I do ultimately care about. Perhaps it's truth, perhaps it's marketing...perhaps it's a little bit of both—either way, I don't think it matters, and feel no reason to dispute it any further in my case. I don't think there is anything I could say or do to convince anyone anyway, aside from giving everyone access to the wwwstats file—which I see no reason to satisfy because it's not what I want the readers to be focusing on either. I want them to come to the site for the fiction, for the articles...or just to poke in and see what we're doing. It matters little who else, or how many are there doing it with them.
      I don't feel that there is any tangible assessment value in numbers anyway—so it's futile to rely on them as any kind of guage of quality. Look at the publishing industry for five minutes and you can easily see that sometimes things are high in volume but not worth a bag of beans—ever hear of media tie-ins? Equally, what attracts one to one place is not really what attracts one to another, nor should it be— and if everyone just does what everyone else is doing he gets accused of trying to be HorrorNet or trying to be Masters of Terror...essentially the word "wannabe" gets placed somewhere in all of it. So we all should be doing something a little bit different than the other. Diversity is as important to success—heedless of how one or another might measure it—as is just doing your thing and being comfortable with it.
      So really, do I feel a great need to discuss my site's hits? Not really. In fact, I think what I'd rather discuss is what the site is doing. Or what it can do to improve what it's doing. Or anything else for that matter...it serves no purpose to discuss how many people read it or how many hits I get—or how many hits anyone else's site gets. It just has nothing to do with the magazine. Nor do I feel that there is a need for some level of supposed competition between myself, Paula Guran, Matt Schwartz, Andy Fairclough—or anyone else that might be in this business. I've said to Ellen Datlow before that what is most essential to the process of growth is that in bad times those who give a damn band together and form a collective effort to serve the cause. We can all live on the same city block in the good times and be concerned with who has the most expensive car, or who's home improvements cost more than the other (or look better), or who gets the best telephone rates...but when the hurricane comes and those houses get tumbled, those cars get flipped, and those telephone wires come down we all have to stick together to pick up the pieces, and just be thankful that anyone at all gives a damn.
      Now, I know that's a pretty left-field analogy—after all we're talking horror here, not hurricanes, and certainly no one's life is going to be in any dire jeopardy if the monsters cease to breathe tommorrow altogether...but the principle is the same.
      If it's numbers that you are interested in with regard to FrightNet Online Magazine I have to admit to being terribly disappointed. It's a signal to me that I have failed in what I originally set out to do.

Ivan S. Graves

Feb 6, 1999

Reanimated--And the climax of A SIMPLE PLAN just totally tore me apart. Man oh man. Wow. BTW, I saw it with my sister and her husband. We had some interesting conversations after the movie! And yeah, I'm a huge fan of the EVIL DEAD movies too, especially EVIL DEAD 2 but I think Raimi's pretty much said all he can in that area. I bet he has another amazing full on horror movie in him, and I agree I'd love to see it, but I'm not sure that'll happen, like you said. It's kinda weird how Raimi and Peter Jackson both came from these splatter/comedy movies like EVIL DEAD and DEADALIVE to these intense psychological movies, Raimi's ASP and Jackson's HEAVENLY CREATURES (which I think is freaking brillant). But, Jackson made it back to horror with THE FRIGHTNERS (which most people hated, but I loved), so maybe Raimi will too. tom Mc

Feb 7, 1999

Say what you want to about website hits, or lack thereof. If Masters of Terror continues to insult American horror, and to address its fans in such a horribly condescending manner (Removing the artwork because it took away from a more "serious" approach to horror? What is THAT?)then there won't be anyone left to complain.

Feb 7, 1999

Let's get a little perspective here, people. Andy has/is doing a fantastic job with MOT and deserves high praises all around. Personally, I don't think he's whitewashing anything or trying to purty up horror. The guy admits to reading Shaun Hutson and Gary Holleman fer christ's sake, just how high a road do you think he's taking? Just because he has a few ads and a different main page doesn't mean he's turned his back on the industry or is hurling goobers in the face of fans across the world. He spends serious time, effort, and cash keeping this place active and fully functioning just so we can have a place to meet and shoot the shit and square off on whatever we have to say. Just because a few comments in one column pissed off some people is no reason to start overly criticizing MOT or Andy Fairclough himself. Remember this is his house and he's willing to share it with us. I don't intend to leave MOT, and man, I only hope Andy never decides to leave us. Wyatt

Feb 7, 1999

What an idiot!

Feb 7, 1999

If Andy Fairclough, Matt Schwartz, & Russell Mullen took their sites down today due to the fact that maintaining things like MOT, Horrornet, & The Horror Collector is a huge pain in the ass; all three of them should still be considered worthy of Life Achievement Awards from HWA & BFS for their contributions to the genre.

That's the bottom line...

'cause

John Pelan

said so... disagree if you will, flame if you dare...

Feb 7, 1999

I agree. I don't truly care what the MOT site looks like or even if it's creator decides to allow anti-american sentiments. Life's too short for some *alleged* comments. I'm here for the discussions. Whatever Andy wants to do with his site, he can and I'll back him up. If you don't like it, express yourself...and then leave if it bothers you so. I haven't read the column by this Kieffel guy and don't intend to, that's not why I'm here. I also don't read Andy's editorial, I just don't care that much. That may be a surprise to some of you, since I'm listed as a contributor. I just read books, review some of them, and discuss them. Anything else is too time consuming. So to Andy: Do what you want, I'll still be here. Paul

Feb 7, 1999

I don't think anyone ever questioned Andy's dedication, or failed to acknowledge the fact that he's created one of the finest horror-oriented websites ever. And I certainly don't think that there is going to be a mass exodus from the site because one mouthy asshole said some nasty things about American horror.
I don't know if some of you have shit between your ears, are recovering stroke victims, or are just plain stupid....But did anyone ever stop to consider that maybe the point of all this was never to insult Andy or to make less of this wonderful website. Maybe the point was to simply inform Andy that moving away from the things that made this site special MIGHT NOT be a good thing. Combine the idea that garish artwork and superflous gore make it hard to take horror fiction seriously with the arrogant, pompous ramblings of Rick Kleffel and all of a sudden MOT is a different creature than the one we've all taken so fondly to.
IT MAY VERY WELL BE EXCELLENT, AND MAYBE EVEN BETTER....But it will be different, and as we all know, Change is bad. We must fear change.

Feb 7, 1999

Amen!

Reanimated!

Feb 7, 1999

tom

Heavenly Creatures was so awsome! I loved it and i was lucky enough to attend it's premier in Canada which Peter Jackson attended. I was also lucky enough to get him to sign a Gorezone Magazine for me (which had an article on DeadAlive). Man Gorezone ROCKED!!![sorry ; )] I'm looking forward to his trilogy of LORD OF THE RINGS which he is rumored to be starting production on. I love Tolkien and can't wait to see what Jackson can do with it. I believe it's going to be all claymation, which should be pretty cool. I liked Frighteners too. Busey was cool as Death.

By the way i should FINALLY be getting your book HEXES next week. Goin down to see my honey and gettin hitched. YIPPY! And i think she ordered your book for me. Nothin like marrying a woman that will buy ya books!

Just as kind of an aside, has anyone heard ANYTHING recent about what is going on with THEIF OF ALWAYS?

Reanimated

Feb 8, 1999

Re: just wanted to say that I'm not the Tom who posted above whom you've been having a discussion with. Say thanks to your fiancee for getting you my book, hope you enjoy it when you get a chance to peruse it.--Tom Piccirilli

Feb 8, 1999

"Alleged Comments"?...go read the Agony Column. I just want to know why MOT now carries a column that insults American writers and publishers and why Andy is raving about it...and heck, why get anyone to cover WHC when it will just be a bunch of "American Cheese' writers.

Feb 8, 1999

Reanimated--I'm jealous that you got to meet Peter Jackson. And as the other Tom pointed out. I'm not Pic, he is. I guess I'll have to do better than just do my name in small caps to distance my self from Tom. But I've been just "tom" in so many other places I hang out on the web for so long, it's a hard habit to break. Anyway, yeah, I'm look forward to the LORD of THE RINGS too. If anyone can pull it off, I bet Jackson can. Speaking of movies I saw some good one's this weekend. THE BUTCHER BOY (I think you mentioned seeing this one) was freaking brillant. I loved the music in that one. I also saw FEAR AND LOATHING IN LAS VEGAS (I thought it was great fun). And I saw PONETTE (not horror at all, but a french movie that's about a 4 year old girl dealing with the death of her mother. It's truly amazing how they got such a great performance out of that kid and the other kids in the movie. It's also amazing how they captured the world of a 4 year old so perfectly. The movie to me to a place I hadn't been in years. I was glad I took the journey back. Great stuff). tom

Feb 8, 1999

Did it again. let's try... tom McAlister

Feb 8, 1999

Andy Fairclough fights back :

Firstly, it seems perhaps that Rick Kleffel has unintentionally upset a few people. I don't have any editorial control over his "Agony Column" but I did decide to host it. I don't know how Rick can be called anti-American when *he is all-American* and also an American horror writer himself!! I think his 'American Cheese' area is supposed to be an AFFECTIONATE nod to the world of mass market paperbacks. I'll see if he will either respond to comments here or in his column.

With regard to Geocities, unfortunately you do have to shut down the advertisements. However as MOT has no funding and I don't get any further space at AOL, for the time being I have to get free space where I can.

Matt - the general consensus around both Horrornet and here for the past couple of years is that the 'dripping blood' and 'gore' image of horror contributed majorly to it's demise in the book marketplace. So MOT wakes up and decides to *cut down* (not eradicate) on the very graphic artwork after perhaps I recognised this. I haven't dropped off all of Tom Arensberg's artwork and the reason there isn't any on the main page at the moment is simply that we haven't been in touch lately. More my fault than his probably. I loved the last piece of art that was on the old message board menu page and this is the direction I'd like to see the included stuff going. If the vibe is changing then , I'm afraid that's the way it goes. If the new direction fails, it fails. When over 70% of people were visiting message boards only and the main page hit count had dropped 40% in six months - the alarm bells started ringing. As I said before I am trying to BRING a few people into horror fiction and reading new authors - that is the only motive.

Reanimated - While I appreciate and agree with some of your sentiments, MOT was just not becoming worth my effort. Some time early last year I stopped doing this for me and started to do it for an audience. When the audience drops away and you sweat in some cases for 20-30 hours a week - you start to think what's the point? Not that I mind putting in the time (even with a family and full time job to occupy me) but if I'm doing it just for me again then I wouldn't do as much. I hope you'll stick around as I said earlier MOT is a horror site and it always will be. Sometimes its not much fun and sometimes it is. Just imagine how hard it is to keep motivated for something, anything - for 20 hours a week, 52 weeks a year.

Anon, you jerk - "At least half the people who visit here are Americans and you trash us...." - the column is written by an American and I don't think its trashing anything. If you must come out with false patriotism do it somewhere else. And to the other anon, "If Masters of Terror continues to insult American horror ...."etc, -- sign your name or fuck off.

Wyatt, thank God for some common sense! Jesus the rest of you guys ever heard of a witch hunt? It's not funny and quite frankly now I know how Dillon felt. (Although maybe he deserved it more than me!)

And no one has had the guts to mail me in person with their thoughts. I guess the old mob handed attack works better huh fellas?

Andy F.

Feb 8, 1999

Andy,
Hold on a second and catch your breath old boy. I was the one who started this latest flame-up so I think I should address it....You KNOW that I respect you and that I think the world of what you've done here. Back when this site was just getting fired up I used to go to the horrornet chatroom to recruit people for these message boards. I use to go around telling people what a good thing you had going here and what a neat person seemed to be behind it. You know what? I haven't changed my mind one damn bit!

I questioned and cautioned you on the new "self-aware" format that MOT is moving towards. That's all. You haven't been attacked Andy, Dillon was a stupid ass know-it-all who allowed zero room for other people's opinions and you're a genuinely good man doing every single one of us a helluva favor. NO ONE WILL ARGUE THAT, and if they do I'll hunt them down and claw their balls off.

You've got to understand that we're all very particular about the things we love and those of us who have been around the genre for 10 or more years have been witness to a trend. You've seen it yourself....First the movement is towards a "higher" literary standard, then it's to a more "realistic" approach to fiction, and eventually, the focus becomes something called "dark suspense" or some other garbage like that, and essence of what brought us to that thing in the first place is dead.

Andy, I don't think that's going to happen to Masters of Terror....But you can't blame me or Reanimated or anyone else for being a little paranoid. We've seen it happen over and over and we're all clutching to the hope that you'll stay the course and remain true to the cause.

Please don't think that we're attacking you. I sure know I'm not. But the timing of your changes combined with Kleffel's dogma created a feeling that was eerily familiar to a lot of us. Perhaps I over-reacted. Perhaps overreacted is one word. Perhaps I should consult a dictionary.

Anyway, I wanted to let you know why I reacted so vehemently to your changes, and your commentary regarding those changes. I would've emailed my concerns to you privately, but I thought maybe we could glean a little discussion out of the subject....I apparently suffered a blow to the head and forgot that we swim with sharks 'round here. So, anyone who was using this point of order as a platform to attack Mr. Fairclough.....Please die now.

Later,
Matt Taylor

Feb 8, 1999

'Was'? Did I die and somehow manage to miss it? Dillon

Feb 8, 1999

All, I seem to have caused a tempest in a tea pot with my five sentence preview for a column that will be a loving tribute to the American paperback. If you have any comments I would greatly appreciate it would greatly appreciate it if you would send them directly to me. I'm much more likely to get your hate mail if you send it to the address in the column, and I'd be happy to respond. I love horror, and I love American horror. I've been a member of the Leisure book club since day one. I think that readers might be advised to wait for the column before assuming that I'm going to just rip on Leisure, and American mass market horror. Wouldn't it be entertaining if a column about how easy -- and wrong -- it is to judge mass market horror by its cover were judged, so to speak by its cover? Here I am writing a loving tribute to the liquor store where I first found a Lancer edition of HP Lovecraft, only to find a boatload of hate mail waiting for me in the Cellar. I appreciate Andy's support. He's created an excellent site. My goal is to give readers reviews of the many books I read as fast as possible. I try to make those reviews more than just recaps of the cover blurbs. Yet I also make it my business to never give away more plot than the cover blurbs, and only discuss plot where it's germane, that is, if the plot if particularly implausible. I plead guilty to pomposity. It comes from caring about horror. I think that what I have to say about horror beyond the 'thumbs up/thumbs down' is the interesting part. You're welcome to disagree with me. If you want plot summaries and universally glowing reviews, you can find them for any book on the cover, and typically in the total trade pubs like Kirkus or Publisher's Weekly. I can't say that I like a book when I don't, and I try to identify the flaws I find in as even-handed a manner as possible. It is my intuition that not every single horror novel published is either a great work of art or even a particularly good horror novel. But if I finish a book, it means that I found it ultimately worth reading for some reason that I always try to elucidate as clearly as possible. I've been accused of many things based on a five sentence preview. I wonder what will be said when the full text is published, if it is. Will it be read by those who were so quick to condemn it? I hope so. I'd like to hear what you have to say upon reading the actual text, as opposed to the repview. It is likely, however, that those who decide in advance that they don't like it, won't read it. Tha5t happens to books a lot as well. That's what book reviews are for -- to give the reader a bit of insight into the book. Even if you disagree with and hate the reviewer, the review is useful. I know I won't like a movie if a certain movie critic does. That's not an uncommon approach to reading reviews. I might suggest that those who think I hate American horror -- a rather humorous idea, since I myself am American, and since I've lavished praise on many American writers -- and those who object to my cheese and sleaze slinging -- to take a quick look at the review I wrote of 'The Horror Show' and 'Big Rock Beat'. Perhaps this will clarify my feelings in this regard. Once again, I'd like to thank Andy for his support. Given the riotous reception for this first fully worked up column -- I would understand if he did not want to run it in the future. It will probably hang out over at Geocities for a while, until I can get a real web site set up. These things take time and money, both of which are in short supply. Thanks for your -- well, honesty! You certainly can't be accused of sugar-coating your reactions! --Thanks again --Rick Kleffel (Agony@emu.com) To Mr. Pelan, I would request that he wait until he hears what I have to say about 'Sineater' until he comments upon it. I will have the new page out in a day or so. Presently, I'm reading a prime piece of American hardcover cheese, 'Hunter' by James Byron Huggins. I really want to include that in the piece, since it bears witness to the assumption that all American Cheese can be identified on the grocery racks.

Feb 8, 1999

Yes, Dillon, you died and missed it.

Feb 8, 1999

The nice thing about all of this (whether you agree with the changes or not) is that it is clear that many people STILL love the genre. I personally don't mind the changes. It wasn't the dripping blood that brought me here in the first place. It was the discussions like the current one that attracted me. It's obvious that Reanimated, Matt, and all the others care about their genre. Both sides of the fence just want to see horror live. I think that wraps things up very nicely...Brian Keene

Feb 9, 1999

If you were planning on buying Brian Hodge's WILD HORSES...it's on sale at 30% off at B&N.com and Amazon.com and is shipping now!! Paul

Feb 11, 1999

You know how at the end of Island by Richard Laymon Rupert kills everyone...hahahahahaha what a spoiler! From Jon Saunder. Josand@Demon.co.uk

Feb 12, 1999

Dear cellar rats,
I have just read Rick Kleffel's almost final draft AMERICAN CHEESE article which hopefully should go on-line in his 'Agony column' at the weekend. My humble opinion is that it is one of the most entertaining articles on horror that I have read in a loooong time. I think it should silence the doubters, both with regard to Rick's intentions and those who question the direction of the site.
Incidentally, I would take this opportunity to thank the many of you who have written this week in whole-hearted support of MOT's new look.
And onto something else. Anyone a fan of REX MILLER? I'm two thirds of the way through my first experience with him, the novel SLOB. WHAM! If REX MILLER isn't one of the damn finest writers I've come across in a long time then I'll eat humble pie. What a wonderful novel SLOB is. Are his other books as good as this classic?
Another question, if MILLER was published for the first time today he would surely be marketed as a crime and/or suspense author, the word horror wouldn't be mentioned. Anyone agree?
And finally, what the f*** ever happened to REX MILLER?

Andy F., (A new Rex Miller fanatic!)

Feb 12, 1999

Andy, I didn't like any of Miller's novels...but his shorts are some of the best!! haven't seen his name in an antho in a few years , though. Anyone know what happened to him?? Paul

Feb 15, 1999

Re: Rex Miller It seems that he got very tired of the Eichord character. It's a shame, because he had a very interesting sub-plot going and just dropped it like a stone. (For Andy): The first three books are excellent, then it goes downhill as Miller visibly loses interest. I don't know if he's still writing or not, he's a very successful nostalgia dealer. I'd enjoy seeing some more short fiction from him.

John Pelan

Feb 17, 1999

All, The American Cheese article is up over in The Agony Column, which has a nice new graphic. I even managed to dig up a 30 year old Lnacer edition of HP Lovecraft. American Cheese is likely to be the cause of great annoyance and boredom. I did manage to cop a hilarious quote from an unnamed pro horror writer in reference to the whole paperback publication process. Also, if there are any specific review requests, address them to me; I'm likely to have the book just waiting to be read, and I am occasionally willing to re-prioritize. If you read AC, look for a link in the coming week or so to a review of 'BioFire'. I'm liking it a lot thus far, but I've always liked Garton. Thanks -- Rickk

Feb 17, 1999

Hi all. John Pellan here. I just want to make a point that has occured to me recently; Why do all horror films end differently. Wouldn't it be better if they just ended the same way...ALL OF THEM! Thanks for 'listening' Yours, John Pellan.

Feb 17, 1999

Hi all. John Pellan here. I just want to make a point that has occured to me recently; Why do all horror films end differently. Wouldn't it be better if they just ended the same way...ALL OF THEM! Thanks for 'listening' Yours, John Pellan.

Feb 17, 1999

My name only has one "l" in it, you moron.

John Pelan

Feb 17, 1999

I've got TWO quotes on Rick Kleffel's new column! TWO! I've hit the big time. Hahahahaah.

This addition to Kleffel's column is worth reading. There are some valid points, some simple matters of opinion DRESSED-UP to look like valid points, and some utter drivel. But hey, what column DOESN'T have these things?
Kleffel's tone has dropped some of its self-righteous flavor. While he still occassionally assumes to know "what's best" for writers and readers both, his general approach to the subject of "grocery store" fiction IS entertaining and somewhat accurate. I guess (damn it) y'all should check it out.

The single thing that set me against Mr. Kleffel to start with was his approach to reviewing books. Towards the beginning of the Agony Column he says something to the effect that he has been working hard to "keep you the reader informed on how to best spend your money and time."
I don't know about anyone else out there but I certainly don't need Mr. Kleffel telling me how to spend my money and time. The quote itself suggests a level of superiority that just fucking STINKS of self-importance. I don't know a single reader who uses reviews as a screening process, to decide what they will and will not read. Reviews are simple sounding boards....One reader's reaction to one piece of writing. Simple as that. That one reviewer should assume himself above this bothers me. Quite a lot actually.
But perhaps that statement was just a generalization, a comment on how seriously Rick takes his role as reviewer. Maybe he DOESN'T consider himself the appointer and designator of "the greater good." Either way, I hated his stinking guts after reading the first segment of the Agony Column and I'm giving him another chance. And everyone knows what a hard-headed, mouthy asshole I can be. So check out the column. Or don't.
Hasta,
Matt

Feb 17, 1999

I know who you are who is impersonnating me-Fred Flinstone right? Well I'm gonna kill you right after I finish up fucking my really hot, wet and greasey guy here. Let me just finish smearing his anus with butter and then I will cum-then I will kill you. From John Pelan.

Feb 17, 1999

Hi Rick: Just a note here to say thanks for the kind words you've offered on my novel HEXES, as fused to criticism as they might be. I'd never read Schelling's (sp?) novel and it did surprise me how similar the two covers were. Repetition of art/theme/execution is bound to be as annoying as it is unavoidable. I just wanted to point out that I've never been published in Grue magazine, though. Perhaps you meant Terminal Fright or Deathrealm?--Tom Piccirilli

Feb 17, 1999

Readers, in response to some of Matt's comments: One aspect of book reviews for me is that I consider them something of a 'buyer's guide'. The basic question to answer in this respect is then: "Is the book worth your money and time to purchase and read?" I buy almost all the books I review. If you look at my review list, you might begin to figure out that this is not cheap. Many of the books I review are very expensive limited editions. The UK hardcovers cost as much or more than limited editions in the US. Any book I read consumes my time, and I don't want to waste the small amount of time I do have to read reading drivel and tripe. I value other reviews I read because even if I disagree with the reviewer, I can usually judge from a review whether I want to spend MY money purchasing an expensive limited edition or MY time reading a book. There are a lot of books out there that are worth reading, and lot that aren't worth the time it takes to read the blurb. There are limited editions that are wonderful to hold in one's hand and read, and there are "limited editions" that are simply cash vacuums for book-buying speculators. I hope that from reading my reviews, readers can begin to make a discerning choice on how to spend THEIR money and THEIR time. Even if they disagree with my assesment, the review should contain enough information to enable them to make their own. I'm spending my money and my time buying and reading books, and trying to keep you the readers of my reviews informed of how I feel about the books I've bought and read. I don't expect every reader to agree with my opinions. No reviewer does. I suppose as Matt puts it, the statement that I am "keep you the reader informed on how to best spend your money and time" is an indication that I take book reviewing *VERY* seriously. What my reviews are NOT are simple plot summaries with a thumbs up or thumbs down attached to the end. My goal in this regard is to tell the review reader *LESS* than what is on jacket or back cover -- especially in those books that like to give away the entire plot before you even start the book! It's nice to know that one can still inspire readers to hate one's stinking guts merely by reviewing books. That's an indication that someone out there actually reads books, and that is a Good Thing. Thanks, --Rick Kleffel (agony@emu.com)

Feb 17, 1999

Tom, It would be DeathRealm where I read your work, then. Alas, so many of the late great Horror magazines are gone these days. DeathRealm, The Horror Show...It makes the success of Cemetery Dance even more important. We should all be getting our lifetime subs to that fine magazine, to support one of the best contributors the the genre ever. Has he got his lifetime achievement award from whatever org there is that gives them out? Thanks -- Rick Kleffel

Feb 17, 1999

Imposter:

Do your lie a favor: use a fucking dictionary when impersonating editors.


Later!

--Geoff

Feb 17, 1999

Rick
"I hated his stinking guts" is Matt Taylor-ese for "He kinda bugged me." The opportunity to discuss these things from up here in my igloo makes me a happy man.
later, Matt

Feb 18, 1999

Hi all. John Pelan here-the real John Pelan, I might add. I was wondering what sort of person would take the time to insult me in such a clever way. I really ought to get some writing lessons off this clever bastard. Really, how does he learn to take the piss out of me so well? Perhaps he is victimising me because I am gay. Plus I am stupid.Well, I have to go now and withdraw my penis from my sheep before I cum so as not to get it pregnant again. John Pelan.

Feb 18, 1999

Well, at least the moron used a spell-check this time. Of course, "take the the piss out" is an expression that I'd never use...

Mr Anon: You can't keep up, why not just throw in the towel? If the best you can do is schoolyard insults about screwing sheep, there really isn't much hope for you is there? A pity that this isn't a newsgroup, where you could be killfiled with the rest of the boring and uninteresting trolls... Do let me know if you plan on visiting the Horrornet Chat Room in the near future; I heard you got quite a thrashing the last time...

Rick: Enjoyed "American Cheese"; an interesting lesson in marketing. Here's a challenge for everyone: Pick the 5 genre titles of the last twenty years that were the most poorly-served by their covers...

John

Feb 18, 1999

I'd have to say THE GIRL NEXT DOOR. The skull-faced cheerleader doesn't do that one justice at ALL. I can think of quite a few which I didn't like, but THAT one, especially, bugs me. I'd use all five of my votes for that one alone.


Later!

--Geoff

Feb 19, 1999

Okay, er, I reckon THE TEA PARTY by Charles L Grant (a skull with a morphed castle growing out of it. Cliche city!) and almost all Dean Koontz's paperbacks. Some of 'em are real pants.

Mike C

Feb 19, 1999

Worst 5 covers.... DEMON DANCE by T. Chris Martindale - it's purple with a silly female Indian with spiky teeth, BRAIN CHILD by Stephen R. George - a silly photo of a young girl with rays shooting out of her head, CARRION by Gary Brandner (UK paperback) - A 'green faced' monster covered in blood, nothing to do with the plot. THE PRESENCE by John Saul (UK paperback) - Surely the most underwhelming cover ever on a horror novel. It has a small orange ball and that's it. And my final place goes to those Rick Hautala novels that had cheesy holograms on the cover.

Andy F.

Feb 19, 1999

Anyone up for a chat tonight? (or this afternoon if you are in the U.S.)? I'm sick of finding the Horrornet chat room empty!
Anyway I'll be in after Frasier tonight (UK) that's about 10:30 PM GMT. I think that converts to 5:30 PM Eastern Time.
Hopefully see a few of you there.
(For those who haven't used the chat before. You have to set yourself up as a user with a pssword first. Simply follow the instructions on screen after pressing the 'create user' button, then you can access the chat room.)

Andy F.

Feb 20, 1999

Include the cover to Brian Hodge's DARK ADVENT on that list. Had nothing to do with the story inside. Most of the novels by William W Johnstone as well...Brian Keene

Feb 20, 1999

Dear John. (Witty, huh!) Pelan that is. For a long time now I have bothered you. I am not sure why-lets just say it amuses me. I set out to cause no-one pain, upset or anything else, it was merely a joke. The way I intended my posts on the cellar were as witty, slightly school yard humour digs at people with references to good films. e.g. Last Tango in Paris was my reference point for the "Smear his anus with butter" Joke in a recent post. John, I only victimised you because you seemed like a laugh. You are inteligent and your responses to my posts were funnier than anything I could ever write. I have enjoyed the expeience but would now like to enjoy the board properly. Incidently all spelling errors were delibberate. OKK? Nun were by acident. My true name is John Pellan, except I normaly go by Jon. This is not a joke, and I would now like to participate in your debates. Thankyou-Jon

Feb 20, 1999

You are one seriously fucked in the head little shitbag. Wyatt

Feb 20, 1999

The deranged little shithole goes by the name David2 in the Horrornet Chatroom. He even makes the same spelling errors. Des.

Feb 20, 1999

Just looked at my collection and found the UK paperback of Chris Fowler's Spanky. It's so bad, I would neve have bought it if I hadn't done so via catalog. Leather boy in briefs with bat wings. Like something out of an S&M satire.... I must admit, the cover of Dark advent also frighted me off as well. --Rick Kleffel

Feb 20, 1999

As a newcomer, I enjoy the give and take of this message board very much. I have my own website, SENTENCE, at http://www.ralphrobertmoore.com. I'd be curious to know what the regulars think of the site, and the fiction there. SENTENCE is a dark literary site. Visitors might particularly enjoy "Big Inches" under THE STORIES - EARLY; "This Moment of Brilliance" under THE STORIES - RECENT; "Going Through Sylvia", "Eight Legs, Three Cunts" and "Big, Dark Hole" under THE NOVELS - FATHER FIGURE; and "You Have An Erection" under THE NOVELS - KID. It seems to me the people here are very intelligent about horror and literature-- what do you think about SENTENCE? Ralph Robert (Rob) Moore SENTENCE at http://www.ralphrobertmoore.com robmary@swbell.net

Feb 22, 1999

Hi. This is a message to everyone. I am not the person be they female, male or whatever who has been bugging this board. If the person who sent the post that I was that person did it out of the true belief that I am that person then I assure you I am not. If it was a prank post-the desperate cry of someone eager to pass the blame and scapegoat someone else then I ask all of you to discount any futher posts of this sort. I do not want to start a big argument over this. I intend to continue to use the boards and chat rooms. It can not easily be proved either way if I am or not the prank so you will just have to take my word for it and be comforted by the fact that I would not bother to write this if I was him. I would shift my identity and move on as is his want. This is where I stand and I will not move on the subject. I am not this person and abuse, mindless flames and insults will not make me into that person that most of you would probably like to evicerate round about now. David. (Or in the chat room) David2

Feb 23, 1999

It's David all right. The same ridiculous syntax and grammar errors, although he put a little more time into his spelling this last post. (Catch him in H-net to see him make the exact same typos). David & Last Tango shitbag both also use a single hyphen for a dash, instead of a double one--pretty weak, David. You don't cover your tracks well.

Feb 23, 1999

He is that guy. He sent me a flase email edress that didn't exist...andie@globalnet.co.uk. Then he tells me that it's his brother's, ha! Then he sayd he'll e me his REAL edress...and I'm still waiting. David2 is the idiot guy, nuff said. Paul

Feb 24, 1999

It was me-David2. I did send these things to get at Jon Pelan. Hahahahaha.-I-bet-you-will never talk to me again. I deserve-that.----David2

Feb 24, 1999

David2 was stupid enough to give me his email address at Horrornet the other night. i do not know if this is a valid address or not, and I have no intention of sending the little butt nuggett an email of my own. I post it here for all to see in the hopes that it is real and that some concerned horror fan will send him a nasty virus: willdave@globalnet.co.uk Now somebody spam this fucker!...Brian Keene

Feb 24, 1999

You better hope he doesn't know your e-mail address, Keene. And if he starts spamming the rest of us who make our e-mail addresses public, I'm going to blame you for starting the whole mess.

Don't end up in the same boat as Dillon, because of a cocky attitude. We can black ball you just as easily.

Feb 24, 1999

If you want to black ball me, be my guest. If, however, you're going to attack me, have the courtesy to sign your name, Mr. Anon....Brian Keene

Feb 24, 1999

Who is this Keene character anyway? Is he related to someone or something?

Feb 25, 1999

C'mon guys Brian is just trying to squash a bug we've all felt the urge to put under our shoe at one point or another. Chill the fuck out.
Blackballing people....What a stupid thing to say. Dillon alone draws more attention on these boards than EVERY AUTHOR COMBINED!

Feb 25, 1999

I agree. Brian merely said out loud what we've all been wanting to say. Why attack him? He's not the one mucking this board up? I rarely speak up in here, but maybe it's time. ----Randy

Feb 25, 1999

Big difference between Keene and Dillon:

Keene entered an argument because someone was attacking one of his friends. Dillon starts arguments because he has none.


Later!

--Geoff

Feb 25, 1999

Just finished watching STORM OF THE CENTURY. This was without a doubt the best horror movie i have seen since BRIDE OF CHUCKY! Yeah, i know. But you havn't seen BRIDE OF CHUCKY. Anyway, i couldn't believe how amazing STORM was. I kept waiting for something to ruin it but it just got better and better and scarier and scarier and tenser and tenser and more depressing and even more depressing!!! GOD! I LOVED IT!!!!! I usually only swear at the TV when i'm watching the Toronto Maple Leafs but i was cussin this movie, I GOT SO INTO IT! King must be very proud of this puppy!! or should i say hell hound!! Colm Theore (sp?) was soooooooooooooo supurb as Andre Lionge. A master!! I can't speak enough about how well the acting and direction of this film was all the way through. I hope everyone was paying attention. This is how good horror can be!!

Reanimated

Feb 25, 1999

BRIDE OF CHUCKY was a kick-ass movie!!!!!!!! **********SPOILER******** When the dude stepped out into the freeway and got splatted by the tractor trailer, was one of the goriest scenes on film in quite a while. *****END OF SPOILER********What else do you recommend, Reanimated?

Feb 25, 1999

The site looks great, Andy! And I love "American Cheese", Rick. Keep it up, guys. :-)

Ray

Feb 25, 1999

Geoff, the only true friend any of us will ever have is ourselves. Why? Because the only true friend any of us will ever have is ourselves. Because the only true friend any of us will ever have is ourselves. Because the only true friend any of us will ever have is ourselves. Because the only true friend any of us will ever have is ourselves. Because the only true friend any of us will ever have is ourselves. Because the only true friend any of us will ever have is ourselves. Because the only true friend any of us will ever have is ourselves. Because the only true friend any of us will ever have is ourselves. Because the only true friend any of us will ever have is ourselves. Because the only true friend any of us will ever have is ourselves. Because the only true friend any of us will ever have is ourselves. Because the only true friend any of us will ever have is ourselves. Because the only true friend any of us will ever have is ourselves. 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Feb 25, 1999

Would one of Geoff's friends call him and tell him he can stop reading the above post now. I doubt he has enough sense to figure it out himself.

Dillon

Feb 25, 1999

How the hell can Dillon start arguments if he has none?

Feb 25, 1999

Since you haven't responded yet, Geoff, I assume your so-called friends have let you down.

Dillon

Feb 25, 1999

He's busy WRITING, Dillon. Why don't you try it sometime?...Geoff's friend, Brian Keene

Feb 25, 1999

Hi John Pelan Are you going to be bringing any of the SImon Clark $40.00 hardback editions of Salt Snake... to World Horror for selling?? If so let me know and I will call you to tell you how many to bring me. Thanks, James

Feb 25, 1999

D2 is now calling himself "Stevenson"

Feb 25, 1999

I would like to say something in regard to the flame war with "anon" alias "What an idiot" alias "Jon Pellan" alias "David2": Here in the states today, a popular disc jockey known as "The Grease Man", was fired from his job for telling a racist joke. Not just any old racist joke, mind you. He was joking about the dragging death of a black man in Texas. ***I AM NOT DEFENDING HIM*** Racism is just about the most heinous thing on this planet. However, it got me thinking. The Grease Man had an opinion. No matter how skewed or fucked up it was, he had an opinion. And when he stated it this morning, he didn't do it as "anon" or use somebody elses name. He signed his name to it. He let everyone know who it was that was sharing this twisted *mirth*. In that aspect, this cretin had far more courage than the pest that has infected these boards. I was wrong to post D2's address. I have been told that the address was since proven to be phony, but I WAS STILL IN THE WRONG. Hindsight is always 20/20, right. I will not justify my actions. I will say that Geoff was right. I acted rashly, but I acted to defend someone who has inspired me and helped me and whom I consider a friend. I did it in the wrong manner perhaps, but how many of you have never made a decision that you later regreted? I was fed up with the childish games of the anon poster and I went off. It was wrong, but it is done. Even so, I signed my name to it. I didn't do it as someone else. I signed my name, just as The Grease Man signed his. Let's take a look at Dillon. No matter what he spews forth, Dillon has the courage to sign his name. I have no love for him whatsoever. But I respect him for standing behind his opinion. Would that others had that conviction.....Again, I am sorry for any undue trauma to you all. I hope that we have seen the last of the anon idiot, although I doubt it. Perhaps he will now have the courage to sign his rantings. I have said all I have to say on the subject. It would be nice to move on to something else. (Reanimated had a nice topic up there). If, however, you would like to flame at me, then the board is open. Who are you? I am...Brian Keene

Feb 25, 1999

Gee, Dillon, how long did it take you to write that? Keep it up! You may stumble across the rest of the keys.

To answer your question, I've been busy for most of the day--I do other things than hang out here and hit "refresh", hoping someone mentions my name.




Later!

--Geoff

Feb 25, 1999

Under ordinary circumstances, Brian's posting of an email address was out of line. However, considering the nuisance "anon," "What an Idiot," or whatever he chooses to call himself, has been, well, drastic times call for drastic measures.

It should be obvious to all that Anon's postings were not going to end, regardless of anything we would have said to him. Most of his posts were childish, intended to stir up trouble, and entertaining to nobody but himself. I should think his imitations of regular posters, no matter how easy they were to spot as the fakes they were, would be found unacceptable by anyone who regularly reads these lists. Forcing him to change his email address (or even ISP for that matter) to avoid long-deserved retribution may make him think twice about mindlessly posting to message boards to get his jollies.

Further, I support Brian 100% in his statements on anonymous posts. It just goes to show how brave people can be when they have the opportunity to post to a board without giving their targets an opportunity to fire back at them. So, to the new anonymous poster: you are a weak, cowardly fool. A flame war is hardly a way to get your point across. You want to prove Brian, Geoff, or anybody else on this board, I'd be happy to hear your arguments, so long as they go beyond "fuck you!" In my eyes, that means you have no argument beyond the simple need to be contradictory, and you've lost the fight.

Finally, to the poster with a penchant for cut and past functions: all you've accomplished is a message board equivalent of a mailbomb. Repetitive and pointless posts like that simply bog down the HTML and prolong the download time, even for you, since you obviously are tracking and will continue to track the argument. While I don't advocate censorship of any kind, perhaps Andy can trim that message down to an acceptable length, as we have already got the point of such an oh-so-subtle and witty post.

Take care,
Mike

Feb 25, 1999

What an idiot!

Andy removed Dillon's stories from this site for having an opinion Andy didn't like. If Dillon hadn't signed his name this wouldn't have happened.

So you can thank Andy for the fear some people, like myself, have when it comes to signing one's name to an opinion.

Feb 25, 1999

Geoff and Brian, you idiot, are the ones using the terms like fuck this and suck that. But you're right -- it did lost them the fight.

Feb 25, 1999

To the new Mr. Anonymous:

1) You will notice there are several posts to these boards that include cursing and swearing. The posts I meant, however, were David2/Anonymous/ What an Idiot simply coming back with a string of curses rather than a coherent argument. Yes, Geoff and Brian curse in their posts, but at least they are accompanied with arguments.

2) And again, at least they have the intenstinal fortitude to post their names and accept responsibility for their actions, especially Brian, who admitted he may have had a momentary lapse in good judgment in posting another person's email address, regardless of the circumstances.

Keep it coming,
Mike

Feb 25, 1999

Oh, I forgot number three:

Beyond refraining to post your name, you've already resorted to name-calling.

Who lost now?

Mike

Feb 25, 1999

And, at the risk of monopolizing this board as my own soapbox, I'm going to respond to the other anonymous "What an Idiot" poster claiming that they fear Andy removing posts from the site.

First and foremost, this is Andy's board. He's the moderator, sponsor, and much, much more. His policies are his own.

Second, if Andy was that strict in censoring opinions, and if he were targeting Dillon, he would likely have removed a large number of posts to these boards. I see several Dillon posts on the boards, and Andy never did remove the posts by David2/anonymous.

In short, that's a mighty small shield you're hiding behind, fella.

Mike yet again

Feb 26, 1999

Removing stories you idiot.

Feb 26, 1999

Dillon's stories you idiot.

Feb 26, 1999

Learn how to read.

Feb 26, 1999

Mike? Mike who? Post a last name or you're as guilty as Anon. We know who Geoff and Brian are because they've posted their last names recently. Give it up.

Feb 26, 1999

Well, we have Anons fighting among themselves. Interesting.

Geoff, it took all of thirty seconds. Copy and paste. How long did it take you to read it?

Dillon

Feb 26, 1999

'So, to the new anonymous poster: you are a weak, cowardly fool.' Hey, Mike Anon, who lost first? By the way, you are by far the most stupid person I've ran across on these boards to date. And your real last name is?

Feb 26, 1999

Anon,
Once and once only. I removed Dillon's stories for the following reasons :
ONE - He almost drove away more than one author from their own boards. These are people who I have respect for and I manage message boards for. His circular and sometimes ignorant arguments almost drove John Shirley and T.M. Wright away permanently. He has recently tried a different tactic in trying to drive away Ray Garton.
TWO - When the plagiarism debate came up many, many, people (most of whom I respect) reacted with horror. For me following what I've explained above it was the last straw. I was embarrassed to have Dillon's stories on my site. It felt like I was condoning all his actions.
And finally oh anonymous, I will be pulling everyone's stories next month anyway in preparation for the on-line anthology, so unless you are one of the few accepted contributors (which I know you are not) you need not hide in fear. So post your name you lily-livered chicken.

Andy F.

Feb 26, 1999

Why can't we all just get along? Horror fiction is the genre that most of us prefer to read as a hobby and perhaps write as a career. Why must we bicker ammongst ourselves as if we were spoiled children. Isn't it enough that the market is neglecting us? Why do some always try to ruin our dreams of nightmares? Let's keep the blood and guts in the books and off the screen, unless it's in the movies. In closing, I must say that I side with those few, Brian, Matt, Geoff..., who can maintain an intellegent discussion without hiding behind names or relying on petty insults.

Feb 26, 1999

Hat's off to Geoff, Brian, and the rest! They have stood by their convictions, regardless of the cost. And I must admit, Brian is correct in his statements regarding Dillon. Even though Dillon is a complete knee-biter, said gent still has pounds more integrity than our anon. This site is becoming a defining force again! Dean

Feb 26, 1999

Quite a spin you put on things, Andy. I don't know if you're outright lying about the Shirley incident, or if he was when he said he would no longer respond to posts unless they address his writing because he felt he was making a fool of himself on general topics (or words to that end). He never once said he was leaving the board, and he never actually stopped responding to general topics like he claimed he would either. And T.M., quite simply, was taking advantage of your star-struck gullibility (authoring a novel doesn't make one honorable or trustworthy). T.M., Ray and I have been going at it since before MOT appeared. You know very little about it (or them for that matter), Andy, yet you were quick to condemn me on the word of people who clearly have all the reason they need to make me sound like the anti-Christ. No, Andy, you had no right to pull my stories because another writer doesn't like me, even if they did claim they would leave your site because I was posting on their board. We had a professional agreement, and you broke that agreement unjustly. My personal life and conduct, and what you think of them, even on these boards, should have no bearing on my professional life, on the stories you accepted and promised to post until the end of 1998. A good editor would never have done so.

Dillon

Feb 26, 1999

Did anyone read my post up there???? You know, the one about Storm? Yeah, one person (thanks). I come here to see if it maybe curbed you guys for a bit and get your opinions on the message and well...no!! I love a good brawl but come on. You guys have been at this for weeks. I'm gonna leave now and go study. And if each of you dont put a comment here about Storm of the Century i'm gonna start slingin some of my own shit!!!!! ; ) just kiddin

Reanimated

Feb 26, 1999

Dillon
I'll only respond to you once to set things straight as you are nothing but trouble.
With regard to the 'Shirley incident' as you call it. Not all events take place on the message boards charlie, it was made very clear to me *privately* that your posts were causing problems on that board.
I'm not interested in history Dillon (although I *was* around at Horrornet long before this site existed), fact is you pissed off and almost drove off, a number of the authors whose boards I manage for this site. It has nothing to do with being "star-struck".
I accepted your stories in good faith, not judging you by your history which *had* been known to me to some extent. However I accepted them as at that time you had not caused me any grief personally.
However, you miss something so blindingly obvious I fail to understand how you manage to get through each day. THIS IS MY SITE MATEY! Like it or not anything I do or say goes. I like to think I'm a reasonable sort of chap but when you start harming MY SITE and DESTROYING and HARMING what I have set up then I think I have the right to disown you and your stories. I owe you nothing, I only apologise to every other visitor to this site that I had anything to do with you in the first place.

Andy F.

Feb 26, 1999

Mike here.

My real name is Mike Oliveri. I've never tried to hide that anywhere, it's just not a habit of mine to post a last name on lists because most people already know who I am. If you want to find me on HorrorNet for an up-front conversation, I go by Corwin.

At least I posted some form of identity. You continue to hide behind your anonymity, and apparently still have some fear that Andy will remove your posts. Well, looking above, Andy responded to Dillon's posts, and is not hiding from them at all. I should think if he was inclined to continue removing posts and opinions that are not aligned with his own, he would already have edited them out and been done with the whole issue.

Cheers,
Mike Oliveri aka Corwin

Feb 26, 1999

Stories, you freaking idiot!

Feb 26, 1999

I got you, Andy. Because this is your site, your agreements, your word, mean nothing. You've stumbled upon a way to get rid of me, Andy. Your lack of honor.

Dillon

Feb 26, 1999

"Stories you freaking idiot."

Ah, what a well-thought-out and coherent comeback. Because Andy removed one story is no reason for you to continue posting anonymously. Obviously your only purpose is to continue drawing people into arguments with childish namecalling. I've posted my name. What's yours?

Mike

Feb 26, 1999

Am I seeing things or did Dillon just use the word 'honor'?